Apples/Oranges and cash

southernboy · Jun 21, 2007

As posted before I was set to pull the trigger on a NH TC45. Now my JD dealer put on the full court press. He came up with two options to counter the TC45 which I was leaning towards and the TN65 that I was considering. I had priced a JD 4120 but felt it was to small. He now has priced out a 4520 with a 400 CX FEL that is comparable to the TC45 in price and capability. As a kicker he found me a 2005 5105 fwd with 50 hours. It has a 522 FEL and a 48 backhoe. I like the 4520 alot but the 5105 is 8 grand less ( big time price leader of 4 considered) and a backhoe. Backhoes are something I have always wanted, could use and couldn't justify because of price and hassle of taking it on/off for the overall need. Any real issues I should consider? Wife likes the Hydro's but is gear capable and cost conscience. At the price I am leaning towards the 5105 but I could get closer to the price with a 4120 /300x bucket. My last tractor has lasted 20 years and I would like this purchase to be as satisfactory. The farm is a 40 acre hobby horse farm ( no haying) with the standard maintainence chores. BH 50% FEL 30% Gnd work 20%. Plan to make a move this week. The TC45/ JD4120 are about 1000 apart.

LoneCowboy · Jun 21, 2007

I have both a TN and a TC
Get the TN (or the JD equivilent)
it's MUCH better tractor, more comfortable, better designed, and cheaper to run in the long haul. (much longer maint. windows)
in 40 acres you have plenty of room to turn around and deal with the larger turn radius of the utility sized tractor.

FULLPULL · Jun 21, 2007

Thats a tough choice they all sound like they are still in the running .

Z-Michigan · Jun 22, 2007

I have a 5105/522. It is a great, solid tractor. The missing fancy features are pretty obvious. If it includes the backhoe and is still 8k less, I think you would find it a great choice. I was looking at the larger CUTs but would up with a 5105 in part because it cost me about the same as a 4120 would have. The 4xxx series are great, but not in the same class of power and durability as a 5105.

I'm not aware of any mechanical issues with the 5105 tractors.

VABlue · Jun 22, 2007

I wanted a backhoe but opted not to get one due to price. But I only have 5 acres so renting occasionally is not a big deal. With 40 acres you'll put it to good use. For $8K less it sounds like a no-brainer to me - I'd get the back hoe'd 5105...

southernboy · Jun 22, 2007

Well I got up this morning to go sign on the line for the 5105. BUT the phone rang and my NH dealer called to tell me he just took a trade and I needed to come see. He had a 2005 JD4720 hydro with 2 years of full warranty and 3 of power train warranty for. He didn't need green on his lot so we bought it for 18,500. Thanks for everyones help and knowledge.

Z-Michigan · Jun 22, 2007

Congrats. I think I need to take you with me next time I'm tractor shopping.

BillyP · Jun 22, 2007

southernboy said:
Well I got up this morning to go sign on the line for the 5105. BUT the phone rang and my NH dealer called to tell me he just took a trade and I needed to come see. He had a 2005 JD4720 hydro with 2 years of full warranty and 3 of power train warranty for. He didn't need green on his lot so we bought it for 18,500. Thanks for everyones help and knowledge.

Sounds like a heck of a deal but where did this warranty come from?

southernboy · Jun 22, 2007

The tractor was bought new in May 06 and the remaining warranty is transferable. Has anyone got any thoughts on the 400cx loader vs the same size Woods loader? The NH dealer will get me the Woods in green

but the JD guy is offering to put on the 400 and the NH guy would haul the tractor there instead of my farm. Both are great guys!

FULLPULL · Jun 22, 2007

Congrats on the new JD .

I would check the websites out and check the specs and options . Sounds like a good deal for the hp and the options.

daTeacha · Jun 23, 2007

I would buy the JD FEL just to maintain a good working relationship with that dealership. Good guys or not, it helps to throw business their way. Your new tractor will probably need something in the way of parts or service sooner or later and it will help to let them know you are willing to buy new stuff from them, too. Besides, maybe they can find you a deal on a used backhoe for the new tractor. The way things keep falling your way, I fully expect that to happen.

RoyJackson · Jun 23, 2007

daTeacha said:
I would buy the JD FEL just to maintain a good working relationship with that dealership. Good guys or not, it helps to throw business their way. Your new tractor will probably need something in the way of parts or service sooner or later and it will help to let them know you are willing to buy new stuff from them, too. Besides, maybe they can find you a deal on a used backhoe for the new tractor. The way things keep falling your way, I fully expect that to happen.

LOL, you going to give him the $3000 to $4000 to maintain that good relationship, Rich?

BillyP · Jun 23, 2007

southernboy said:
The tractor was bought new in May 06 and the remaining warranty is transferable. Has anyone got any thoughts on the 400cx loader vs the same size Woods loader? The NH dealer will get me the Woods in green but the JD guy is offering to put on the 400 and the NH guy would haul the tractor there instead of my farm. Both are great guys!

I guess I missed something? It's June 07 now so wouldn't that leave 12 and 24?

Still a great deal, just not understanding the warranty.

BillyP · Jun 23, 2007

RoyJackson said:
LOL, you going to give him the $3000 to $4000 to maintain that good relationship, Rich?

john_bud · Jun 24, 2007

Which Woods loader and what are the differences in price between the JD and Woods?

If the difference wasn't much $ more that a couple hundred, I'd get the JD. If it was more than that the Woods 215 is a good loader - but not one with the fancy curved arms. There are new woods loaders with curved arms. LC and LU series. The LU132 looks the most similar to the 400CX.

Product Specification for 400CX Loader

http://www.woodsequipment.com/literature/pdf/200-300-3100 LIT 0804.pdf

GroundMover-X Series Loaders by Woods Equipment Company

on edit -

Marketing Hype Alert!! Marketing Hype Alert!! Marketing Hype Alert!! Marketing Hype Alert!!

The JD loader specs are with a bucket that weighs only 238 pounds. That is LESS than the 9 cu-ft bucket on my kubota L3410. A real bucket matched to the capacity of the loader will weigh 450# - 500#. I don't know what the bucket specs are on the Woods, but you have to watch it close to avoid getting mislead.

radman1 · Jun 24, 2007

Like John Bud says, if the loaders are near the same price, I would go with the JD. Tractors with the same brand of loaders are a little more desireable in the long run. No warranty issues or misunderstandings with the same brand of loader. Both JD and Woods make good loaders. I would also add, you might consider getting a skid steer attachment on the loader now and with a matching bucket. Can use/rent many skid steer attachments later if desired.

daTeacha · Jun 24, 2007

RoyJackson said:
LOL, you going to give him the $3000 to $4000 to maintain that good relationship, Rich?

No, I wouldn't go that far -- maybe an 8th of it. I was presuming the prices were at least competitive between the Woods and JD units.

The comments about the bucket weight bring up a point I've never been able to get a good solid answer to -- when loader lift abilities are given, does that include the bucket or is it net weight the thing is able to lift? With our little machines especially, that can be a pretty big percentage of the capability of the loader. I figure my 60" QD bucket on the LX114 CNH loader, plus the grapple, plus the toothbar I made leaves me with about 350 lb hanging on the front end before I even start to lift something else. I take unneeded parts off when I'm going to be moving heavy stuff. I dropped the entire assembly to unload a large square bale of hay from the truck.

john_bud · Jun 24, 2007

Rich,

It's a real kabobble of marketing. It's almost impossible to get an honest comparision. JD has about the best specs, but they play games and use a 238# bucket! That has to be a 48 or maybe a 60" light duty bucket. No way applicable for the tractors the loader is being used on.

The old (back in the 50's and 60's) industrial loader information listed how much the dern thing could pick up in the bucket to full height and how long it took to do it (cycle time with full weight). They also listed the bucket used. I'd like to see that type of clear information again - but won't hold my breath!

jb