Anyone have a small hydro electric system?

[MossRoad]

FWIW: I have roughly 40kWh of battery storage attached to our solar (a grid tied system). Costs on batteries have come way down, and there are reasonable options these days to roll your own battery from an electric car battery, e.g. a Leaf, especially if you aren't connected to the grid any longer.

A small hydropower system and batteries go a long, long way toward grid independence, and adding in a different source, e.g. solar can make a huge difference. 6kW of solar makes us grid positive for the year, and energy exporters for about eight months of the year.

The flip side to generating is consumption. You can get by on less power, if you have gone through your home to make it efficient. (LED lights, well insulated, etc.) I know of one person who put a cheap power controller ($40) on a chest freezer to make it into a refrigerator that used something like 160Wh of energy per day to keep his food cool. Of course, there are trade offs in terms of costs in efficiency vs adding more generating power and storage. I find these decisions are very local, what meets your needs will be different from the next person's needs.

Don't forget to look around for local energy programs and grants. About 90% of our battery and installation costs, wiring, two new service panels, breakers, etc., were paid for by our utility.

All the best,

Peter

They did away with net metering here in Indiana, so we're kinda dead on that front.

 

[ponytug]

They did away with net metering here in Indiana, so we're kinda dead on that front.

That makes batteries much more cost effective; you get to replace utility power with your solar at 90% efficiency. You just don't get to store summer power for winter time...

On the other hand, your power probably isn't $0.54 peak, $0.27 off peak either...

All the best,

Peter

 

[Ktm rider]

Boy that's nice!

Tried to post a video of it running but couldn’t figure out how

 

[MossRoad]

That makes batteries much more cost effective; you get to replace utility power with your solar at 90% efficiency. You just don't get to store summer power for winter time...

On the other hand, your power probably isn't $0.54 peak, $0.27 off peak either...

All the best,

Peter

No, no it is not. Yikes.

 

[MossRoad]

Tried to post a video of it running but couldn’t figure out how

I made a free account on Youtube, put some restrictions on comments and privacy, then post videos over there, then post a link to the video here. Works great.

 

[bnold]

They did away with net metering here in Indiana, so we're kinda dead on that front.

Oh man, that’s a bummer.

What was the driver for that?

 

[MossRoad]

Oh man, that’s a bummer.

What was the driver for that?

Poor people subsidizing the grid for rich people that can afford to purchase solar installations.

I know that sounds blunt, but that was the driver.

 

[ponytug]

Poor people subsidizing the grid for rich people that can afford to purchase solar installations.

I know that sounds blunt, but that was the driver.

I actually think it is a lousy argument, but a favorite one for utilities, who receive power with no capital investment in their part.

An (the?) underlying problem is that the cost of the grid (poles, transformers, wires, and maintenance thereof is currently billed on a per kWh basis, when it really is a per meter per month cost. The trouble is that if you do that two things happen; a) power ends up costing very little reducing consumers' incentive to conserve, and b) lower income folks are hit with really high monthly fees before they have used any power at all. I ran the numbers for my local area, northern California, and the per month fees end up in the several hundred dollars/mo as a meter fee. The existing, hidden, subsidy of large homeowners with large power bills carries along many, many lower income users. That makes a per meter fee politically a hot potato, and the utilities don't want to be the evil overlords socking it to the poor, so they are starting by socking it to the evil rich bastards who put in solar as being "free riders".

It is being thrashed out here as we speak. I suspect that this is only round one of many until we edge over to a per meter fee, with subsidies for low income consumers. Right now, the proposed tariffs incentivize pulling the plug on the grid, adding solar, and batteries and moving on with life, which will really hurt low income consumers when they have to pay for the whole grid. To say that it is complicated is an understatement in my opinion.

All the best,

Peter

 

[MossRoad]

I actually think it is a lousy argument, but a favorite one for utilities, who receive power with no capital investment in their part.

An (the?) underlying problem is that the cost of the grid (poles, transformers, wires, and maintenance thereof is currently billed on a per kWh basis, when it really is a per meter per month cost. The trouble is that if you do that two things happen; a) power ends up costing very little reducing consumers' incentive to conserve, and b) lower income folks are hit with really high monthly fees before they have used any power at all. I ran the numbers for my local area, northern California, and the per month fees end up in the several hundred dollars/mo as a meter fee. The existing, hidden, subsidy of large homeowners with large power bills carries along many, many lower income users. That makes a per meter fee politically a hot potato, and the utilities don't want to be the evil overlords socking it to the poor, so they are starting by socking it to the evil rich bastards who put in solar as being "free riders".

It is being thrashed out here as we speak. I suspect that this is only round one of many until we edge over to a per meter fee, with subsidies for low income consumers. Right now, the proposed tariffs incentivize pulling the plug on the grid, adding solar, and batteries and moving on with life, which will really hurt low income consumers when they have to pay for the whole grid. To say that it is complicated is an understatement in my opinion.

All the best,

Peter

Yep. I didn't say I agreed or disagreed with it. But that's the driving force behind it in Indiana. The utilities are pretty powerful here.

 

[CalG]

On the topic, but not quite..

Some years back, a Vermont high schooler made a project out of chronicling all the known small hydro plants here in Vermont.
The young fellow up turned quite a number of installations up and down the state. The irony is, Not a single one of them was operational! Seems that the upkeep is quite high.