Any Pilots On Here??

[MossRoad]

I think it goes something like, you need 10 hours minimum to solo in a single engine plane.
You need 40 hours minimum to get your single engine pilots license, where you can take non-paying passengers (your family).
You need X more hours to get instrument rated. You need that to fly in non-visual weather.
You need X more hours to get your multi-engine license.
etc....

 

[flingwing1969]

I think it goes something like, you need 10 hours minimum to solo in a single engine plane.
You need 40 hours minimum to get your single engine pilots license, where you can take non-paying passengers (your family).
You need X more hours to get instrument rated. You need that to fly in non-visual weather.
You need X more hours to get your multi-engine license.
etc....

1. Most folks, except military pilots, don't solo at 10 hours or get there pilot's license at 40 hrs - the reality is substantially higher than that - but it varies with the person and the airport at which you are training. Army flight school gets you out the door with a bit more than 200 hrs under your belt.

2. Many private or sport pilots are VFR (good clear weather) pilots and never get their instrument ticket.
3. Many light twins are really not worth the trouble and expense - the reliability of aircraft engines has improved over the years and the speed of single engine aircraft often matches that of the light twins.

Many private pilots who are also aircraft owners, get their CFI (certified flight instructor) rating and provide sufficient instruction each year to keep their rating current. Why? Insurance is often much cheaper for a CFI rated pilot than for a simple single-engine land rated pilot.

$$$$$. Their is an old definition of a boat that holds true for aircraft similarly, "A boat is a hole in the water into which you pour money."

 

[flingwing1969]

Could not agree more, but when guys are thinking about buying a boat they are picturing themselves on their boat with a bunch of ******'s. Which happens....maybe, but not enough. I have also heard the two most happy days of a boat owners life are the day he gets it and the day he sells it. Those were my two most happy days back in 1998 when I had a Harley Davidson motorcycle.

So tell me about aircraft? Is it the same generally speaking? I understand the dollars and insurance for example....my buddy who is a new pilot at 120 hours. He pays $100 per month for his indoor hanger, his annual inspection is $650 but he said it winds up costing him around a grand and his insurance is $2,000 annually. It is $3.20 per gallon of fuel and he paid $40K grand for his aircraft.

And that is all really reasonable costs. Depending on where you live, etc, you can easily double all of that.

 

[rustyshakelford]

Here’s an example for costs. I was going to get my fil something aviation related for Xmas. I called the mechanic and asked what “cream puff” needs. He recommended a dual usb charger. The total price for that was over $500. Doesn’t help the plane is 24v. Also considered replacing a few interior panels and it made the usb charger look cheap. They are very expensive to have work done to and maintain. That’s the one thing you can’t skimp on

Brett

 

[flingwing1969]

Here’s an example for costs. I was going to get my fil something aviation related for Xmas. I called the mechanic and asked what “cream puff” needs. He recommended a dual usb charger. The total price for that was over $500. Doesn’t help the plane is 24v. Also considered replacing a few interior panels and it made the usb charger look cheap. They are very expensive to have work done to and maintain. That’s the one thing you can’t skimp on

Brett

If it's for an aircraft, it will cost you. I was flying a Cessna P210RG from Kansas to North Dakota when the generator gave out on me. I landed in North Platt Nebraska and found they had just what I needed - for around $500 (as I recall) (in the early 90s). Darn thing said "Ford" right on it and I had the same model on my shelf at home, except no one had scattered the magical "aircraft certified" pixie dust on that one yet - I think my one at home went for something like $70.

 

[fried1765]

If it's for an aircraft, it will cost you. I was flying a Cessna P210RG from Kansas to North Dakota when the generator gave out on me. I landed in North Platt Nebraska and found they had just what I needed - for around $500 (as I recall) (in the early 90s). Darn thing said "Ford" right on it and I had the same model on my shelf at home, except no one had scattered the magical "aircraft certified" pixie dust on that one yet - I think my one at home went for something like $70.

For what potential future use would you have been keeping (the same model) a 24V Ford generator/alternator on the "shelf at home"?

 

[EarPlug]

Hear is a site with a lot of good info.

AOPA You Can Fly

AOPA Learn to Fly

 

[Old Red]

When we were looking at the 6-300 he paid $124,000 for he was showing me a light on top of the very back tail wing. It was just a round LED light. I think it just flashes. I kid you not....this thing was $600. It was found during his annual that it was needed. That is just insane. I failed to ask him if the inspector is also the mechanic who sells the lights or do they have to be separate people.

Oh, and I saw a couple 14 days intensive schools. Anyone heard of that? I have spent the evening watching a million youtube videos and I had no idea they would turn you loose by yourself in an aircraft at 10 hours.....just had no idea. That is pretty quick and somewhat exciting to be honest.

 

[Drstrangeglove]

I paid about $500 for led taxi and landing lights. But I can leave the on all the time now.

 

[Old Red]

I paid about $500 for led taxi and landing lights. But I can leave the on all the time now.

Gene, did you ever mention the type of aircraft you have?

 

[Drstrangeglove]

cessna 172S built in 2004. It's the last of the steam gauges.

 

[PILOON]

The $ killer with airplanes is the AWD's (airworthiness directives) which are mandatory.
On my C182 the prop needed some seals changed every 5 years and the prop shop wanted $500 as they would only do a complete OH.
Then came an AWD for the fuel cells at, I recall $4-500 each. and so on.
In Canada there was a provision that if an automotive part that was common to aircraft it could be used providing it came in a factory sealed box. (might not still exist)
Now I was fortunate as I also held an A & P ticket compliments of the Cdn Air Force and a high school summer training program* (as well as 'hands on experience' as I did all my maintenance under A & P supervision)
I also documented all that time.
In Canada you needed a certified school training + supervised practice which meant 3-4 years (2000 hrs) academic + 3 yrs apprenticeship. Under Can/USA bilateral agreements I was accredited also my USA A & P ticket plus a USA pilot ticket.

That gave me great privileges, I could buy a US aircraft that was out of licence, certify it for ferry flights fly it with my USA ticket, import to Canada and clear Customs then inspect and repair as necessary and re certify and register it in Canada.
Those were great old days! (I did it more than a few times)

My 'hobby' led to an avionics career and a certified Avionics facility and finally a Cessna dealership as well as as an FBO operation.
I was also a director of the AEA (Aircraft Electronics Assoc) for Canada for many years.
The most 'fun' jobs we did was to modify SEL's for transatlantic ferry flights, and that fully certified with DOT.
I once equipped a C206 for an 'all around the world' adventure, another was 5 crop sprayers upgraded to full IFR c/w Loran, HF and long range.
That was easy as sprayers have a nice huge tank up front so I simply sealed, drilled and added a fuel line and pump to transfer the fuel. For the back up pump I used boating bilge pumps. I modified those 5 AC in a 3 week time frame! and all DOT approved and inspected!
For some ferry tanks we simply strapped down 45 gal drums inside the AC, others were more complicated and required custom tanks.
It was not all that difficult as it mainly consisted of secure attachment and generally we'd use the seat rails and cabling + turnbuckles. After all the seat rails were designed for 170 lb passengers and that at 9 G's. so a rear seat tanking could accept 340 lbs of fuel. Worst was plumbing for dual pumps to refill high wing AC.
Naturally we'd install GPS (or Loran-C back then) .
HF SSB was another requirement for constant communications. Naturally the AC had to be IFR certified.

* the DOT accepted the RCAF course in lieu of the 2000 academic hours.

And do I miss flying, YES!

 

[MossRoad]

So I think the OP had requested the meaning of the acronyms..... hahahaa

I know A & P is not a supermarket... :laughing:

 

[mjarrels]

Airframes and powerplants.

mark

 

[mark02tj]

Around here, T-hangars rent (or used to, last time I looked many years ago) for around $200-250 / month. You can be hangared in a big, shared hangar for less, but you risk "hangar rash" as your plane is moved around to let others in and out. Also, there used to be a waiting list at many of the airports for hangar space.

Others have mentioned the cost of replacement parts, etc. As mentioned, EVERYTHING has to be approved for airplane use. Even upholstery. So, if you rip a cushion on the seat and want to replace it, you can't just go to the fabric store and do it yourself. The fabric, the padding, etc. all have to be approved your use in a cockpit. All of that adds to the cost.

I think the exception to this is if you have a homebuilt (aka - "experimental") airplane. If you are the original builder of the plane I believe you can work on it yourself instead of hiring an A&P (aircraft and powerplant (?)) mechanic. If you're not the original builder of the homebuilt plane, I don't know if you can work on it to do the annual, etc.

The corollary on the boat thing is "An airplane is just a big hole in the sky that you throw money into".

By the way, I don't think that any of us are discouraging you from pursuing this - we just want you to be well aware of the actual costs and the potential costs of ownership. If you think it's expensive to overhaul a car engine, just wait until you see the price to overhaul a Lycoming engine!!

Also, check out barnstormers dot come for airplane listings. You'll see terms like "TSMOH" and a number. TSMOH means something like "Time since major overhaul" and indicates the number of hours since the engine was completely rebuilt. The lower the number, the better. But, look at the price differences between similar planes with huge differences in those numbers. The higher the number, the closer you are to overhauling the engine, so the closer you are to an upcoming cost.

 

[fried1765]

The $ killer with airplanes is the AWD's (airworthiness directives) which are mandatory.
On my C182 the prop needed some seals changed every 5 years and the prop shop wanted $500 as they would only do a complete OH.
Then came an AWD for the fuel cells at, I recall $4-500 each. and so on.
In Canada there was a provision that if an automotive part that was common to aircraft it could be used providing it came in a factory sealed box. (might not still exist)
Now I was fortunate as I also held an A & P ticket compliments of the Cdn Air Force and a high school summer training program* (as well as 'hands on experience' as I did all my maintenance under A & P supervision)
I also documented all that time.
In Canada you needed a certified school training + supervised practice which meant 3-4 years (2000 hrs) academic + 3 yrs apprenticeship. Under Can/USA bilateral agreements I was accredited also my USA A & P ticket plus a USA pilot ticket.

That gave me great privileges, I could buy a US aircraft that was out of licence, certify it for ferry flights fly it with my USA ticket, import to Canada and clear Customs then inspect and repair as necessary and re certify and register it in Canada.
Those were great old days! (I did it more than a few times)

My 'hobby' led to an avionics career and a certified Avionics facility and finally a Cessna dealership as well as as an FBO operation.
I was also a director of the AEA (Aircraft Electronics Assoc) for Canada for many years.
The most 'fun' jobs we did was to modify SEL's for transatlantic ferry flights, and that fully certified with DOT.
I once equipped a C206 for an 'all around the world' adventure, another was 5 crop sprayers upgraded to full IFR c/w Loran, HF and long range.
That was easy as sprayers have a nice huge tank up front so I simply sealed, drilled and added a fuel line and pump to transfer the fuel. For the back up pump I used boating bilge pumps. I modified those 5 AC in a 3 week time frame! and all DOT approved and inspected!
For some ferry tanks we simply strapped down 45 gal drums inside the AC, others were more complicated and required custom tanks.
It was not all that difficult as it mainly consisted of secure attachment and generally we'd use the seat rails and cabling + turnbuckles. After all the seat rails were designed for 170 lb passengers and that at 9 G's. so a rear seat tanking could accept 340 lbs of fuel. Worst was plumbing for dual pumps to refill high wing AC.
Naturally we'd install GPS (or Loran-C back then) .
HF SSB was another requirement for constant communications. Naturally the AC had to be IFR certified.

* the DOT accepted the RCAF course in lieu of the 2000 academic hours.

And do I miss flying, YES!

Your ferry modifications story, brings to mind an old transatlantic ferry story.
WAY back in the summer of '64 I was based in Argentia, Nfld. as a pilot in VW-13 (EC-121), a USN squadron.
We were the over water extension of the DEW line, and although based in Nfld. flew our 12 hour missions, for 2 weeks at a time, from Keflavik, Iceland.
We were positioning from Argentia to Keflavik on the 19th of Sept.(my mothers B-day), and asked to be alert for the whereabouts of 3 Mooney Mark 20s who were inbound to Reykjavick, and overdue.
We made many calls in the blind on 121.5, but never received a response.
On landing in Keflavick, we got the full story.
The 3 Mooneys had departed from St. Pierre/Miquelon enroute to Reykjavick.
The leader was apparently a retired USAF navigator. The other two had no long distance navigation capabilities. They were to follow the leader.
The ceiling was about 300', and there were multiple layers above.
The freezing level was at about 1000'.
Somewhere along the way they got split up.
The leader (who could navigate) landed in Reykjaivk.
One of the other two flew past Iceland, but a West bound PanAm flight convinced him of that, and he attempted to return to Reykjavik. He did not quite make it.
He ran out of fuel about 60 miles off shore, and the USN helo from Keflavick picked him up.
The 3rd guy is still out there somewhere.
The 3 Mooneys were originally bound for mainland Europe.
ONE...Actually made it!

 

[MossRoad]

Interesting story.

I had to look up the EC-121. Based on a Constellation. That, too, was interesting.

Had to look up the Mooney, as I'm familiar with them. They are still being made... around $700,000 for a new one last year!

 

[ray66v]

If you want to learn to fly, as others have said, you can't do well, if you do it half hearted.

Doing it right, is a major investment in money, and time.

You have to do as your instructor asks. Even if he, or she, the worst instructor in the world, (you won't know the difference), to get through the private pilot certificate requirements.

Once that is done, mostly you will know how to operate the controls of the aircraft safely. And, what the basic rules are.

One of the biggest mistakes pilots make, is to then conclude the way they learned how to do it, is the only way. Their instructor was "god". And, the way they taught you is always right.

If you are lucky, hanging around the airport, you will find some experienced, talented mentors, who will over time, teach you how to actually fly the airplane, rather than just operate the controls. Then, you will know the difference.

 

[Old Red]

So I have spent this evening reading and soaking up Light Sport Aircraft licensing and planes. No medical....minimum of 20 hours....these aircraft will hold only 2 people. 120 knots at max speed and no flying over 10,000 feet. But some of the planes look really nifty. And they burn 5 gallons of regular old unload gasoline per hour! 22 miles per gallon. Full glass cockpits look neat. I realize that one of my goals of "family travel" will be unmet. But they say if you instruction is certified to teach both you can work towards your PPL while you work on you LSA. If I had the LSA I could gain a lot of hours economically. Trying to read and learn if there is much cross coutry in this type of plane. I like the idea of a $50 dollar cheeseburger to start out with.

Any thoughts or knowledge to share on this? This could get me started...... I hear the LSA hold their value pretty well so if I get in one I can hopefully get my $ back.