Any downsides to getting a CDL?

[Jcoon]

The first stupid part....imo....is that it goes off of gvwr and not gvw.

here is what you are wrong about, it only goes off GVWR, it actually can go off GVW also.

 

[Jcoon]

Oh if only it were that simple.

Simple should be I have my truck and 25' trailer. No hitch, axle, or tire is overloaded. combined weight is 22k. I should be good to go.

But no.....its a 24k trailer ....and since its "rated" for far more (Making me alot safer than towing the load on a 12k trailer).....now all of the sudden one needs a CDL to tow commercially.

I dont understand how taking two tires off each axle....building the trailer to lighter duty standards, putting smaller brakes on it, and giving it a sticker with a different number makes it so much safer as to not require one to obtain a CDL to haul the EXACT SAME LOAD

here is the problem, we let you go by actual weight, now you can tow 26,000 pounds no matter what the ratings are of the units, now theres nothing say you cant put a 20,000 pound piece of equipment on a 1/2 ton pick up with a tandem axle car trailer, because there are no ratings to go by, you just cant go over 26,000 actual pounds.

the other issue that WILL arise, now you have a trailer that is rated for way more weight, now you want to haul that much because well... "the trailer sticker says I can!" oh but wait, now I cant because I do not have that stupid CDL class A, why is the number 26,000 pounds? im not a big tractor trailer?? why cant I weigh 30,000 actual pounds? all my ratings on my units say I can.

there has to be a cut off somewhere, and 26,001 GVWR or GVW and or 26,001 GCVWR or GCVW is the numbers they decided on.

I don't know what else to tell you lol

 

[ddbackhoe]

There痴 not very many roll backs capable of hauling the backhoe and I don稚 know of any towing company that has one. And they won稚 make a short distance haul for $4 a mile. All the towing company rollbacks around here are single axle. A few of the dealers have tandems.

maybe more than you think...An f-650 chassis has a GVW of 26000, a Cat 420 weighs 16,000. Quite a few towing companies also have trailers available. Some have tractors and roll back trailers. They make money by moving stuff from place to place. A more successful business relies on what may be done, rather than deciding what can't be done.

Wish I could find one of my pics. We had an old Oliver Cletrac track loader (12kish). Brought in a 50 ton wrecker to pick it up and load onto a single axle roll back on a Sunday afternoon. The rollback took it to NJ for prep to it's new home in British Columbia. Pick up and delivery from southern Md. to Trenton, NJ (200+) was $700.00.

 

[Jcoon]

If my truck GCVWR is rated at 14,000 lbs, the truck and it's payload without trailer weighs 7,000 lbs (including tongue weight of the trailer) can I tow an EMPTY trailer with a 14,000 lb GVWR that weighs 3,000 lbs?

Truck AND EMPTY trailer total actual weight 9,000 lbs
Truck GCVWR 14,000
Truck GVWR (7,000 lbs) and trailer GVWR (14,000lbs) equals 21,000 lbs. So the TOTAL RATINGS are far exceed the limits. Is that legal?

To get it down in smaller numbers I'm getting a Ford Transit Connect. It has a Weight-Carrying Max. Trailer capacity of 2,000 lbs. Can I legally tow my EMPTY Hudson HSE DELUXE 5 TON trailer which has a GVWR of 12,000 lbs? It's weight is 2,000 lbs.

if your truck can tow 2,000 pounds and your trailer weighs 2,000 pounds, then yes, I mean, are you trying to make a trick question or something?

as for as weights, you cannot exceed your ratings by actual weights, we do not put you over your ratings by other ratings, it has to be actual weights. but licensing goes by ratings or actual weights.

 

[LD1]

here is what you are wrong about, it only goes off GVWR, it actually can go off GVW also.

I NEVER said it "only" goes off GVWR.

Even though it kinda does as it pertains to this thread.

If your "actual weight" is over 26k....yep you need CDL. BUT, if you aren't over 26k "rating"...I think you have bigger problems with overloading your equipment.

As it pertains to THIS thread....the issue is wanting to tow a load UNDER 26k by several thousand pounds......yet STILL needing a CDL just for the simple fact that the equipment is built heavy duty and "rated" for more than 26k

 

[LD1]

here is the problem, we let you go by actual weight, now you can tow 26,000 pounds no matter what the ratings are of the units, now theres nothing say you cant put a 20,000 pound piece of equipment on a 1/2 ton pick up with a tandem axle car trailer, because there are no ratings to go by, you just cant go over 26,000 actual pounds.

the other issue that WILL arise, now you have a trailer that is rated for way more weight, now you want to haul that much because well... "the trailer sticker says I can!" oh but wait, now I cant because I do not have that stupid CDL class A, why is the number 26,000 pounds? im not a big tractor trailer?? why cant I weigh 30,000 actual pounds? all my ratings on my units say I can.

there has to be a cut off somewhere, and 26,001 GVWR or GVW and or 26,001 GCVWR or GCVW is the numbers they decided on.

I don't know what else to tell you lol

I'm not saying nor am I implying that either.

No matter what you tow, be it suv with a landscape trailer or a class 7 dump with a tag trailer. You can NEVER exceed axle/tire/hitch/trailer/truck ratings.

But being penalized for seeing the benefit of having a heavier duty trailer/axles/brakes is plain stupid IMO.

Answer me this....what's the difference between the following...
Single axle one ton + 14k rated trailer + 8000# tractor
Dually one ton + same trailer and tractor?

Or what's the difference between...
Dually one ton + 12k trailer + 7k tractor
Dually one ton + 14k trailer + same tractor

 

[Jcoon]

well then why not just use a full blown low boy to haul your 8,000 pound tractor? you just want to be safe right?

not saying you want to go that far, but if you worked in this field, you would find out that there are indeed people out there that think like this..

 

[Jcoon]

I NEVER said it "only" goes off GVWR.

Even though it kinda does as it pertains to this thread.

If your "actual weight" is over 26k....yep you need CDL. BUT, if you aren't over 26k "rating"...I think you have bigger problems with overloading your equipment.

As it pertains to THIS thread....the issue is wanting to tow a load UNDER 26k by several thousand pounds......yet STILL needing a CDL just for the simple fact that the equipment is built heavy duty and "rated" for more than 26k

unfortunately, its all about the "what if's"

like I said, the unit GVWR's limit people, if all we went by was actual weight, and it was 26,000 actual pounds, but unit 1 GVWR is 15,000 and unit 2 GVWR is 15,000, by the rules you want the driver would be fine with a class D, (in NY class D is regular non CDL license)

but now....

well my GCVWR is 30,000 pounds, I bought a new heavier tractor, now I weigh actual 29,000 pounds, my equipment is fine to haul it though???

so you want us to make him have a CDL class A on the day he weighs 29,000 pounds, but the day he weighs 26,000 pounds he's ok?

the problem is he has the capability to haul over 26,000 pounds, therefor they say he needs a cdl class A. we cant simply trust everyone to not exceed the 26,000 pound actual weight.

 

[Jcoon]

if want you to drive more weight down the road with a non CDL, buy a truck with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs and get a trailer with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds, there... you can weigh 36,000 pounds combined but still have a non cdl.

 

[4570Man]

I can’t get the trailer under 10k otherwise we wouldn’t be in this problem. And people pull 10 ton goosenecks all the time around here and don’t get tickets. That law either doesn’t exist or isn’t enforced here.

 

[Jcoon]

Well then go for it!

Only one way to find out lol

 

[4570Man]

I feel pretty certain I could move it around a few times a year for private use and be fine. 3 times a week for commercial use is a different set of problems.

 

[LD1]

I can’t get the trailer under 10k otherwise we wouldn’t be in this problem. And people pull 10 ton goosenecks all the time around here and don’t get tickets. That law either doesn’t exist or isn’t enforced here.

Exactly what I was saying when I said a pickup is more likely to go unnoticed.

 

[4570Man]

Exactly what I was saying when I said a pickup is more likely to go unnoticed.

Maybe not in some states but definitely here. They pretty much leave non commercial trucks alone.

 

[LD1]

unfortunately, its all about the "what if's"

like I said, the unit GVWR's limit people, if all we went by was actual weight, and it was 26,000 actual pounds, but unit 1 GVWR is 15,000 and unit 2 GVWR is 15,000, by the rules you want the driver would be fine with a class D, (in NY class D is regular non CDL license)

but now....

well my GCVWR is 30,000 pounds, I bought a new heavier tractor, now I weigh actual 29,000 pounds, my equipment is fine to haul it though???

so you want us to make him have a CDL class A on the day he weighs 29,000 pounds, but the day he weighs 26,000 pounds he's ok?

the problem is he has the capability to haul over 26,000 pounds, therefor they say he needs a cdl class A. we cant simply trust everyone to not exceed the 26,000 pound actual weight.

I realize you are just enforcing the laws on the books. I don't fault you for that.

But try and justify it all you want....it's still stupid IMO. It's about nothing more than the money, and has nothing to do with safety.

If it were truly about safety, everyone would be held to the same standards. Rather than personal exemptions, recreational exemptions, farm use exemptions, etc.

And to your point about going by actual weight.....if a guy has a 15k rared truck and a 15k rated trailer....then yes, IMO he should be legal if kept UNDER 26k actual.

Yes you are supposed to trust him. If you question the load and stop/scale him and he's over, cite him. That's how I think it should work. Just like you trust someone pulling a 14k to not exceed 14k. If someone has 15k on a 14 k trailer behind a 10k truck.....sure you can cite him for overloading the trailer. But what about CDL. He technically is under CDL rating, both actual and rated. But jumping trailer size, to not overload the 14k trailer...even still staying under 26k actual...puts him in CDL territory.

Or what about de-rating class 7 trucks to keep them under CDL. Doesn't make them any safer to skate by without CDL.

So again...it's NOT about safety. Only about money.

I think the laws on the books need a major revamp. As they were drawn up long before these modern duallys we're so common in rural America. and towing at 26k gcw behind a modern truck is nothing at all like towing that with equipment 3-4 decades ago

 

[LD1]

Maybe not in some states but definitely here. They pretty much leave non commercial trucks alone.

Definitely true around here. Mainly because of the personal (non-commercial) exemption.

Sure, if you are towing a 3-car wedge you are probably gonna have issues without a CDL. But a GN behind a dually with a piece of farm equipment goes unnoticed

 

[Jcoon]

Well I definitely wish I saw some of that money you are talking about, hopefully it’s going to good use somewhere .

 

[bdog]

Well I definitely wish I saw some of that money you are talking about, hopefully it’s going to good use somewhere .

You do see it. It pays your salary, buys those portable scales, fancy weigh stations, etc. I am not saying you personally as a DOT officer are getting rich off of it but the Government rakes in the cash off these rules and regulations.

LD1 pretty much hit the nail on the head. The rules are not about safety and are not even logical. The thing about government though is they never like to loosen their grip. They just like to come up with more and more rules. Again not you personally you seem like a cool guy I am talking about the .gov itself.

 

[LD1]

You do see it. It pays your salary, buys those portable scales, fancy weigh stations, etc. I am not saying you personally as a DOT officer are getting rich off of it but the Government rakes in the cash off these rules and regulations.

LD1 pretty much hit the nail on the head. The rules are not about safety and are not even logical. The thing about government though is they never like to loosen their grip. They just like to come up with more and more rules. Again not you personally you seem like a cool guy I am talking about the .gov itself.

X2

Nothing personal against a dot officer just doing his job. He don't make the rules. Just enforceses them, as stupid as they may be.

30-40 years ago these rules pertaining to CDL probably made alot of sense with the given selection of trucks on the road.

Modern times.....pushing tow ratings of a regular pickup, and 10x safer than a few decades ago, and gvwr's alot higher.....times have changed.

Several decades ago for the most part, the only people that had sizable equipment were farmers or construction contractors. Modern times....that has changed. The scut, cut, and ut tractor boom. Everyone is wanting a way to tow one. And as sweet as modern diesels are, and as smooth and stable as duallys are...it's hard to resist. But now pushing north of 14k gvwr....pretty soon we aren't even gonna be able to tow a single axle landscape trailer with a lowly one ton pickup.

Don't know the rules in other states, but in Ohio it's clearly spelled out that CDL only applies or commercial or commerce. And there is a clear exemption for personal or recreational use. Which is probably why a dually towing a tractor or similar equipment goes unnoticed here in Ohio.

Which leads back to my other point...why is someone who wants to tow with a dually and 14k trailer have to go through the same testing, schooling, fees, licensing, dot numbers, physical, etc as someone who drives an 18-wheeler? Seems a pretty big jump to me.

And in Ohio with a personal exemption, or farm exemptions....and untrained, and unlicensed (class d only) can jump behind the wheel of a semi and hook to a 60,000# grain trailer, or lowboy to haul a dozer around as long as it's for personal or farm use. But the small business guy wanting to do some.landscaping and light tractor work with a 3500 truck and a 14k needs a CDL-A.....come on. We need a revamp of these laws desperately

 

[newbury]

if your truck can tow 2,000 pounds and your trailer weighs 2,000 pounds, then yes, I mean, are you trying to make a trick question or something?

as for as weights, you cannot exceed your ratings by actual weights, we do not put you over your ratings by other ratings, it has to be actual weights. but licensing goes by ratings or actual weights.

Thanks, this is the most concise understandable answer. I've been told and read that the ratings matter. I've tried asking the Virginia State police over the phone and via email and received no answer.