any downside to hst?

[AutoUnionTypeC]

Time VS money.... I'td be a good bet that an HST equipped tractor will outwork a similar GEAR equipped tractor in typical homeowner use. That is, it will get the jobs done faster, using my time more efficiently. That time can then be spent doing important things, like catching bugs with the kids. The few extra $$ spent on fuel and maintenance are far outweighed by the massive time savings the HST offers me for the tasks I do.

Good point, I've a family too. Just four for me though, Dargo.

Nevertheless I'm of the mind that skill would be able to negate most if not all the time savings. Obviously this comes down to personal preference and I was just throwing mine out into the mix.

Regards, J

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I'm of the mind that skill would be able to negate most if not all the time savings.

Actually I would seriously argue that even the most skilled operator of a shuttle shift equipped tractor will not be as efficient as moderately skilled HST operator when it comes to many tractor tasks. Loader work and mowing on varied terrain with obsticals to mow around are two common tasks that come to mind where HST is clearly superior in efficiency. I realize that there is a level of personal preference and some folks simply prefer the gear tractors while others prefer HST, but from an objective outlook, HST is clearly more time efficient for many of the common tasks that smaller tractors are used for. This would not be true for agricultural tractor uses like plowing, in that case, gear is superior for many reasons.

 

[JerryG]

Bob,
I wish that you lived close enough to me to where you could bring your tractor and work with me for a day.

 

[Redneck_Randy]

I went with the shuttle shift because I feel more in control of the tractor and I don't like running the motor at a constant RPM like you have to with HST's. Sure wished NH offered a DA class Boomer with shuttle shift.

 

[JimR]

Jim ask your neighbor what transmission he has. The 91hp 5525 has a 24 speed PowerReverser and the 95 hp 7720 has an IVT. JD doesn’t offer an HST in anything larger than a compact and never has. A person could believe that either one of these manual transmissions were a HST by the way in which they operate.

Jerry,

His tractor has the IVT transmission in it. He told me it was a HST. I looked at the specs on it. It is a very interesting setup. It even has a park position.

 

[JerryG]

Jim,
It is in no way an HST. Go to the John Deere site or Fendt site and read up on it. The Fendt site actually give a better description or I think that it does.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Jerry,

His tractor has the IVT transmission in it. He told me it was a HST. I looked at the specs on it. It is a very interesting setup. It even has a park position.

I got to drive one at a field demo last summer. They ARE NOT HST. It is a mechanical transmission. They are, as the name implies, infinately variable in their power delivery, but are not hydrostatic. Deere has had several "powershift" transmissions, all being mechanical as opposed to hydrostatic in nature. Their only hydro's are available on compacts and lawn tractors. No big AG tractors.

 

[Woodbeef]

The tranny in that 95 hp Deere is a CVT type of gear box,not HST like Bob stated already. It is actually the ZF-ECOMMII type. IH had a true Hydro in their tractors in the 60s and 70s up to 100 hp or so I think it was. Renault/Claas has a Hydro tractor now in the 80-90 hp range for municipal use.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

My lawn mower is hydro (Deere 265, 1991 vintage) I like it a lot. On my full sized tractors, I still prefer gear drive for one reason. THEY'RE ALL THREE PAID FOR! If I was to buy a new tractor today, I might go hydro. Back when I was buying new equipment, hydro's were still a risky venture. I ALMOST bought an IH Hydro 70 back then. I was still farming, still plowing every spring. They just weren't the hot set-up for that. For general utility work, they're sure convenient. The technology has improved considerably through the years too.

I'm also on that list who don't like the whining from hydros. Maybe I need one WITH A CAB!

 

[dieselsmoke1]

Like many others here I've had both. Put a few hundred hours on hydros and many thousands on gears. I enjoyed gears and if I were still farming would consider nothing but gears of some sort, however now I'm mowing and grading.

No doubt hydros lose about 10% of HP to the drawbar compared to gears, that's pretty well documented. That's not quite the same as saying "it pulls 10% less".

Loader or grading operations for example, for those intermittent moments when you need every ounce of horsepower converted to drawbar, the hydro will require you to do this at a speed 10% slower than a gear driven. However, when the load lightens up, with a skilled operator the hydro is off and gone while the gear driven operates at a constant speed or clutches to shift. "Any" tractor that i would want has enough power to turn the tires if needed.

Evaluate your needs and get whichever fits. There's not a wrong choice.

 

[Doc_Bob]

Time VS money.... I'td be a good bet that an HST equipped tractor will outwork a similar GEAR equipped tractor in typical homeowner use. That is, it will get the jobs done faster, using my time more efficiently. That time can then be spent doing important things, like catching bugs with the kids. The few extra $$ spent on fuel and maintenance are far outweighed by the massive time savings the HST offers me for the tasks I do.

I would love to have a head to head with an HST vs a Power shuttle. Would there be a difference bewteen an operator who knows their Power shuttle versus and HST owner who knows their HST. Now, how many events, and what kind of events???? What a great reason for a get together.
Bob

 

[Soundguy]

Can't argue about the benefits of HST and loaders. As for implement hitching.. I think that is just a practice issue. When i fist got a tractor.. it took me 30 minutes to hitch a 500+/-# 5' mower. I can now back into place and hitch a 10' 2500# mower in less than a minute... Just takes practice.

Still.. It's a personal choice issue more or less these days. Or at least application. No dount some tasks will lend to HST use over gear.. And in areas where ground engagement and constant speed / constant rpm applications are occouring.. you can get by with the economy of gear.

Soundguy

There is one "pro" of the HST that I didn't see mentioned yet.

It is the easiest for hooking up attachments. There is nothing like being able to go 1/4" back or forward. My gear tractor has a 50% underdrive/overdrive and in super low, it is still a pain to go back slow and stop on the exact spot. This may not apply if the attachments are light, but a 1200# cutter or 950# box blade is no fun to move around into position!

Also, the ability to drive into a pile of dirt, slow down without loosing traction and power the bucket full is priceless. I can move about 25% more dirt in the same time with a 10 cubic foot bucket on my HST tractor than on my gear tractor with a 20 cubic foot bucket.

jb

 

[FamilyFarm]

Well, this issue sure got folks attention today! I like HST and it works great for me - very efficient in my opinion. Would I win any competition? Not likely! That's because I do not operate my tractor every day, nor depend on it's efficiency to make my living. If I was competing with someone that uses a gear tractor daily, I'd lose! It's the same principle I use to answer questions about my sports car. According to Road and Track, it will do 0-60 in 5 seconds, 1/4 mile in 13, top speed of 156 mph, and corner at .93g. However when I'm asked if it will beat a competitor, I say that depends on who's driving! A professional driver could beat me in a "slower" car because of his ability to "safely" push the car to it's limits. I enjoy the car's abilities, but I don't drive it at it's limits (I'd rather stay alive!).
BTW, I wonder if the non-hydro tractor actually is 10% more fuel efficient. It seems like everyone in the Kubota forums with a Grand L tractor uses approx 1 gal/hr, from the 3830 up through the 5030, irregardless of engine hp, gearing, with or without cab.
Enjoy your tractors, your cars and trucks - be thankful we are free to choose whatever suits us!!
Terry

 

[Soundguy]

I'm in the camp that says that it's an old wife's tale that gear is better than hydro for any ground engauging items. .

I think the key issue is efficiency. And it's hard to argue that a gear tractor has more effenciency in the drivetrain. Looking at the specs for many models that offer a gear and a hydro tranny.. there are usually lower pto hp numbers for the hydro unit. Not a huge percentage.. but it's there on paper.

I think the age issue will have some bearing on effeciencey as well. There ahve been posts here from people with old hydro units that start ? slipping.. no.. not correct term.. but .. losse power onthe hydro for some reason.. doesn't pull.. etc... when they get warm... My guess is internal leaks. A gear tranny simply wouldn't have that problem unless a gear was stripped... and then the tranny wouldn't spin at all. Closest thing would be a slipping clutch.. which.. compaired to a tranny fix.. is no big deal.

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

I went with the shuttle shift because I feel more in control of the tractor and I don't like running the motor at a constant RPM like you have to with HST's. Sure wished NH offered a DA class Boomer with shuttle shift.

To be fair.. there are many tasks that a gear tranny will require the same constant engine speed.. like mowing.. etc.. or lots of tillage.. in open fields.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[MossRoad]

. IH had a true Hydro in their tractors in the 60s and 70s up to 100 hp or so I think it was.

I had one in my late 70's IH2500B. It was an industrial tractor/loader with dedicated FEL and 3pt hitch on the back. It was a four cylinder gas engine with 50PTO HP. You were supposed to operate it at full throttle, according to the manual. Very fun loader to operate. Rarely used the brakes, except for tight turns and working close to something expensive, like a dumptruck or house. As I said in a previous post, the HST tranny outlasted most of the rest of the tractor.

 

[AndyMA]

i think hydrolic motor power is limited or they would offer it on the bigger machines, but if your going under 35hp go hst.

The earlier part of what you say is true. However hydraulic power is not limited. You can clearly build a hydraulic pump/motor of any size. Tractor manufactures may choose not to offer larger units.

Andy

 

[MossRoad]

I would love to have a head to head with an HST vs a Power shuttle. Would there be a difference bewteen an operator who knows their Power shuttle versus and HST owner who knows their HST. Now, how many events, and what kind of events???? What a great reason for a get together.
Bob

Yes, that would be fun... a tractor rodeo featuring two identical tractors except for the tranny. Although, I would like to see the same operator use both machines for timed events, pulls, lifts, etc... and then make notes as to which one he/she liked best, regardless of the scores.

Here's something I've noticed over the years here at TBN...
When someone mentions brush hogging and gear tractors in the same breath, they usually mean field mowing, as they talk about constant speed and cruise control.... "set it in the correct gear and go." When I talk about brush hogging, I'm going through thick, nasty brush, not tall grass. Multiflora roses, saplings, 1.5" trees, uneven ground, etc... it is constant speed and direction changes. I couldn't pick a gear for more than a few feet and have to stop and change speeds. Plus, I need full power to the brush hog, so I need the engine RPMs up at max all the time anyway. I would like to see someone with a gear tractor brush hog the places I do and then do it again with an HST tractor. Do that for a couple hours and see which unit did more work, AND how tired the operator is after two hours on each tranny type. On the other hand, brush hogging grass in a field, if you have cruise control, would probably be just as easy with and HST.

One other thing I've noticed here on TBN... most folks that do similar tasks to what I do that now have HST and formerly had GEAR would not go back to GEAR if given the choice. I think that says a lot given the vast amount of hours of experience all those users have, when combined.

 

[Doc_Bob]

Yes, that would be fun... a tractor rodeo featuring two identical tractors except for the tranny. Although, I would like to see the same operator use both machines for timed events, pulls, lifts, etc... and then make notes as to which one he/she liked best, regardless of the scores.

Tractor rodeo! I love it!
Bob

 

[Theowegian]

I have 500 hrs on my hydro transmission. I won't ever go back to a gear tractor...love my hydro!