Another hay question

[BryanM]

I am not a farmer or in the hay buissness, but have a few questions about the hay buisness. Too help my questions a little info will probably be usful. I live in northwest ohio , I am interestied in haying 10 acres all flatground no trash or stones.

1 ? On an average year how many bales of hay do you get from 1 acre?
2 ? What kind of mixture fo grasses do most hay farmers sell if they want good quantity and quality?
3 ? how many square bales are in a round bale? or are their different sizes of round?
I think that is all the questions I have right now. I did a search on the subject found lots of hay questions but never found the answer to these. Thanks for your time.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

If you do not have any hay equipment already then I would not try to bale 10 acres unless you want the hay for yourself, even then I would look for someone to custom bale it.

But to answer your questions I will do my best.

Bales per acre depends on a lot of things. This year I averaged 80 bales an acre for first cutting timothy/orchard grass. The bales weigh 40 pounds as that is what my customers want. There was no rain and as a result no second cutting. This is the second year I did not get a second cutting. On a normal year I should have 100 bales an acre for first cutting.

If you are looking to plant your 10 acre field find some potential customers or horse owners and talk to them. Ask them what type of hay they prefer. If you ask 10 people chances are you will get ten different answers. Around here Timothy and Orchard Grass are popular with the horse people. I mix birdsfoot in with my timothy/orchard grass fields. Brome is not as popular here but I have one customer who loves it and buys all the Brome I have. Some people love Reed Canarygrass but you have to cut it early. I also have request from some stable owners for Alfalfa. There really isn't any one perfect hay and if you go south they grow different types of hay. Talk to your potential customers and see what they like.

As for round bales, it all depends on the size round bale and the weight. If you bale 50 pound square bales and 2000 pound round bales then you have 40 squares in one round. If you bale 600 pound bales you have 12 bales in it. Most horse farmers do not want round bales as they prefer the small flakes of the square bale. It allows them to give more accurate rations to each horse. Plus most horse farms are not set up to handle and store round bales. The only time I have ever sold round bales is to grape farmers who wanted it for mulch in the grape rows.

I am located in Western New York right along Lake Erie so our weather is similar to yours. Depending on how heavy the grass is you will usually need at least 4 days to bale your hay. Cut one day, ted the next, rake the third day and bale the 4th. Lay the swath out as wide as your cutter will allow.

 

[scott_vt]

Mornin Bryan,
I think Robert answered all your questions and I dont have alot more to add other than I found this article on haying and found it quite interesting and informative and Im sure you will enjoy the read !

Haying FAQ

 

[BryanM]

thanks guys graet info. I am not sure on why you say if I dont have the equip dont bail ten acres. I relize initial cost of buying equip might be a little high and would not make much profit if any at all, but would probably pay for land and equip payments?

I am still getting info on this little project of mine to see if it is worth doing or not so keep the info coming and thanks for taking the time to point me in a direction thanks again Bryan

 

[Robert_in_NY]

If you want to figure high numbers then say 1500 bales a year at $2 a bale equals $3000 a year. It seems like a lot of money unless you have a bad year, or your hay gets rained on. Now if you have a year like this year then your number goes to $1600 and if it gets rained on you are lucky if you get $800.

You are able to do what ever you want with your money and if you want to get into haying then by all means go for it. But for 10 acres I would not even try. Now if you have some neighboring land you could use then it would make more sense. I have found a lot of land owners here are happy to have me fix up and maintain their fields because they don't have to waste time and money on fuel cutting it.

Best of luck to you on what ever you decide and if you have any other hay questions feel free to ask as there are a few of us on here that play around haying. And there are a few smart ones who no longer play around haying

 

[zzvyb6]

I put a thread together back in June about my simple, low investmeny hay operation. Maybe this pulls it back.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/102970-color-money.html?highlight=color+money

If you have a Tax Accountant put together a business and your township recognizes Agricultural zoning, then there is money to be saved on such an endeavor.

I run about 1500 - 2000 bales a year for the neighbors and a few friends. $2.00 a bale if you help, $2.50 if I drop it off out of the field, $3.50 if it goes into the barn. Do the math. I will deliver to a few special friends. There is very little money spent after the first few years other than 4 boxes of twine, 12 gal of Diesel and maybe a few new cutter knives or holdown clips. Its pure gravey now: work boots, taxes, welder, gas wrench, pto generator, cutoff saw, 18v tools, 4 wheeler, Remington 700, post hole digge, etc: all part of the inventory needed for Farm maintenance and production. (not to mention the tractor, mower, rake and baler. IRS deductions made and approved by the Feds and State. All depreciating wonderfully every year.

All my plants are in full production. Currenly inventorying about 20 acres, including a neighbors 2.5. Maybe I'll add some more next year. Plenty of customers for baled grass hay around here: best thing for pet horses. I'm in Livingston County, MI. Stop in if you want to see what its all about.

 

[farmerjim]

if i were to hay only 10ac i def wouldn't go out and buy brand new equipment. you would take years to make your initial investment back, think about the monthly payment on equipment, that would probably get used for a couple times for the whole summer, i'm not sure you'd make enough off 10ac to pay the eq while its sitting around the rest of the year. think about it even at small sq bale price of $5 a bale 1st cut and say $6 for second cut. if you went out and bought the new equipment. 1 a utility 50hp pto tractor or better is about20k plus new, used about 7-14k depending on what you get. 2. mower conditioner or mower whether it be tow behind or 3pt your looking at 5k plus. 3. tedder 2 or 4 basket probably a 4 basket as it will save time new is probably 3k 4. a rake again new depending on what you get rotary or wheel or rollabar is going to be about 3k as well. 5 the baler which is going to push about 8-10k or more. if getting into this venture for only 10ac i would get some good older equipment and see how that goes or even if feasible try rent some of the more expensive eq like a mower or baler. good luck if you do decide to go for it. i would also check out zzvy thread on his set up, looks to be a good plan/operation. i have a similiar small scale op myself only i give most of the hay to our own cows. there is also a book i saw one day at tsc called small scale haymaking they had some good things in there as well, i'm not too sure on the author though. fell free to ask any more ?'s as needed like mentioned b4 there a bunch of us who play around w/ haying here.

 

[BryanM]

What I was thinking was buying all used equipment, auction stuff that sort of thing. I went threw and looked on line last night and found some equipment that was pretty cheap, granted I dont know what kind of shape it is in but I definately wouldnt be buying new.

Another route was I have a few friends that are farmers and thought I may be able to have their help to get started. I have not yet talked to them about this hair brain idea yet but I will maybe even work out some kind of custom bailing not sure yet, just trying to get my ducks in row before I go and do something stupid.

Really my main goal of this project was to be able to pay for the land that I would be purchasing, not to make a living at it, I was thinking I would be able to doo this for a few years and pay off the property and any equip I might use and get a couple tax breaks. but I dont want to do it if it is just a black hole type of hobby. I still have some research to do but keep the comments coming because I do value all of them!

 

[Robert_in_NY]

You know, I was thinking about what you were wanting to do and I am not sure how your area is exactly but you might want to look into a pick your own strawberry, raspberry and blue berry field. My friends up here that do strawberry fields figure they make roughly $8-$10k per acre. You don't need more then 1-2 acres of strawberries and you will get 3-5 years out of the field (at least you will in my area).

You have the labor issue for planting but that is about it. You will easily make more money with fruits and vegetables then you will hay and you won't need as much equipment.

If you do plan on going the haying route then make sure you have someone who knows balers go over them with you before you buy. Also, if you are going the auction route do your homework before the auction. Some balers have a terrible reputation and no parts support. You will definitely want to see what dealers you have in your area and if they are set up to support a hay operation. My dealers up here carry a lot of baler and cutter parts in stock but I have been to other dealers that don't carry much of anything so if you needed a part they would have to order it.

If you plan on only 10 acres then you can get away with an older haybine which will cost around $1k for something in average condition. My only experience with haybines was a New Holland 489 and it did a good job but the rubber was coming off the crimppers and those are expensive to replace so you will want to check on those. Other brands used steel which some people prefer over the rubber for dry down time.

When I was looking to buy a baler a few years back I had a great deal on a New Holland 326 that looked brand new even though it was around 10 years old if I recall. But it was in the middle of winter and I dragged my feet and the dealer sold it to someone else. That was priced around $3500. I ended up buying a New Holland 575 for $7500 in great condition with the model 72 thrower. I bought two metal kicker wagons for $2k each then added 2 more over the next year ($3k for a new kicker rack and I used a gear I had and I bought another used one for $1600)

The rake was a NH 256 that was given to me as payment but normally they cost around $2-$3k for a decent used one. I bought a 4 star tedder at an auction for $1600.

Farmerjim, I have sold hay to a lady in Cape Cod and she told me about the prices you guys get out there. You are lucky but once you get into WNY, WPA and Ohio the prices are not there because there is plenty of hay (usually) and a lot of farmers who do not value their time. I know one farmer who sells his hay for $1 a bale regardless of the market. My friends who bale hay in Ohio report similar situations there. But we all hear of how much money we can make shipping hay to the East coast or Flordia.

 

[jimg]

I was planning to buy a NH haybine but got a good deal on a pair of MF 725s (the MF haybine equivalent). In retrospect I think it worked out better in that the conditioners on the MF machine are pretty nearly bulletproof. That is, theres no rubber to delaminate. The top roller is steel w/ steel ribs welded on in a spiral and the bottom is sections of 'tire' material in a long stack w/ grooves cut to accept the ribs. I just cant see that ever wearing out. Other than that its pretty much the same as a haybine....in fact nearly identical. So when youre looking for equipment keep your options open. I think going to an auction would be hard unless you knew a lot about farm machinery or you could get a piece really cheap. So far Ive gotten all my gear in private sales. This way I can see it run and ask plenty of questions.

During the summer I was looking at a Hesston 4570 inline baler. It needed some work and the salesman (where I bought my tractor) put in a shop ticket to get it ready to sell (to me). The work took a couple weeks and when I called again to see it run I was told they had sold it. This is was a really nice baler for short $$ (about $5k). I was *very* disappointed about seeing that baler go b/c I like the inline concept. So far Ive not seen any others locally. My plan B is to find a good NH 311, 316 or 326 and its looking like Ill need to go out of state for those....which adds to the cost. Im going to keep looking thru the winter though.

ETA: Robert that price on the 326 is *very* good. You really missed out on a great deal!

Another very good source of infos on machinery is on ytmag in the implement alley forum. You should check that out for sure!