Another Gauge Wheel Build Post

[skidoo]

Both sets look great! But, I am now wondering which will perform better, those with a short length or those with a long length. I would tend to think the longer set will make it smoother quicker. I have some factory gage wheels for the Frontier Rake. They are really short and don't seem to make any difference. So, I removed them.

Anyone have some theories or experience on the differences between the long or short length (from blade to wheel) of gage wheel?

 

[mjncad]

Do you happen to have a photo of the rear blade side plates? It is on my list of projects to build a set for the back blade posted above. I am especially interested in how the side plates are braced. I am thinking of running a diagonal brace (angle or pipe w/flattened ends, etc) from the front edge of the side plate inward to the blade just above the cutting edge. The plates would be 1/4" thick plate and bolted onto the blade with a couple of angle iron tabs. Do your side plates have any additional reinforcing?

I'll try and get a couple of pictures for you and post them. I usually just use one end plate when I want to channel dirt to one side. They are heavy and the only reinforcing is a strip of flat welded on the plate that acts as the attachment point to the rear blade.

 

[RedDirt]

Both sets look great! But, I am now wondering which will perform better, those with a short length or those with a long length. I would tend to think the longer set will make it smoother quicker. I have some factory gage wheels for the Frontier Rake. They are really short and don't seem to make any difference. So, I removed them.

Anyone have some theories or experience on the differences between the long or short length (from blade to wheel) of gage wheel?

Other gauge wheel post indicate the further back you can get the wheels the better. My limiting factor was I did not want the extension arms to be forward of the 3PH when in the retracted position. I think the shorter setting will be useful if you are making tight turns. That way the wheels will stay within the graded area and not swing and raise over the blade edge berm.

I tried them out today. Marvelous!! Effortless grading. The trick is to get the height adjusted correctly. I'll likely wish more than once I'd sprung for the trailer jacks. If my adjusting nuts get to be too big a hassle I'll upgrade.

What surprised me is that for fine grading (gravel driveway) the blade is actually a couple inches above the ground (when checking the optimum setting later on flat concrete). I'm glad I left the all-tread long. Was going to trim but now I won't. I still have down adjustment left but I think wheel depth settings will change if the top link blade angle is changed. In hindsight I'd have made the "T" bushing longer and lower to reduce the amount of exposed bare all thread...stronger.

RobJ,
Yes, I doubt the HF wheels will last. They have bearings, but not sealed well despite the specs stating they were. The pivot bearings have zerks, the wheel bearings don't. The pivot bearing race has an exposed gap at the lower ball bearing race. I made a silicone dust cover for them. After masking I packed the race with a needle grease gun attachment (Kragen Auto) then removed masking and greased the outside of one race for silicone release. I was going to take pictures of the process but didn't. But here is the finished seal. When it sets overnight (or longer) I'll see if the release worked.



Other posts have used the HF wheels so I thought I'd give them a try...cheap. I've already begun to think about replacing them. The wheel is not difficult, it's finding a sealed pivot assembly that's hard without spending a fortune.


3RRL Rob,
Thanks. I got the mounting idea from another post but he mounted the cross arm above the blade arm because his blade tilted too. That one is earmarked on my other computer but here is another. He used two cross arms. I'm hoping my single arm is stout enough for the task. Two would interfere with my planned ripper bar

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/build-yourself/90568d1196716825-my-version-skunkwerxs-gauge-wheels-gauge-blade.jpg

Yes I like the added weight. And I'll add another 100# or more with my ripper accessory and side plates. I'll post separately the whole rear blade upgrade when I'm done.

 

[RedDirt]

I'll try and get a couple of pictures for you and post them. I usually just use one end plate when I want to channel dirt to one side. They are heavy and the only reinforcing is a strip of flat welded on the plate that acts as the attachment point to the rear blade.

Thanks, I'm anxious to see the photos. I actually thought about making the side plate angle adjustable so they could be of better use if the blade was angled. Too complex. Like you, I'll likely just mount one if the blade is angled. I have side plates on my garden tractor rear blade but running one is not an option because they are tied together with a ripper bar that is pinned to them. Angle blading with them on was always a problem unless I was tilted, then I could scratch a decent, but shallow, ditch.

 

[RobJ]

RobJ,
Yes, I doubt the HF wheels will last. They have bearings, but not sealed well despite the specs stating they were. The pivot bearings have zerks, the wheel bearings don't. The pivot bearing race has an exposed gap at the lower ball bearing race. I made a silicone dust cover for them. After masking I packed the race with a needle grease gun attachment (Kragen Auto) then removed masking and greased the outside of one race for silicone release. I was going to take pictures of the process but didn't. But here is the finished seal. When it sets overnight (or longer) I'll see if the release worked.

Well time will tell, in case you get this idea maybe it will save you some money. Once the bearings went out on a HF wheel I though I would get smart and buy some sealed bearing. The bearings never wore out but the rim holding the bearings failed. This was on a 3'x4' atv cart so I never carried more than a 3-4 bags of corn. After the rim failed I ran it for a season as it (hey it still rolled!!) until I found the goat card wheels.

Rob

 

[mjncad]

Do you happen to have a photo of the rear blade side plates? It is on my list of projects to build a set for the back blade posted above. I am especially interested in how the side plates are braced. I am thinking of running a diagonal brace (angle or pipe w/flattened ends, etc) from the front edge of the side plate inward to the blade just above the cutting edge. The plates would be 1/4" thick plate and bolted onto the blade with a couple of angle iron tabs. Do your side plates have any additional reinforcing?

Here are a couple of photos of the Frontier/Woods end plates on my rear blade.

 

[RedDirt]

Here are a couple of photos of the Frontier/Woods end plates on my rear blade.

Thank you for the photos.

I had thought some diagonal bracing would be needed to keep the side plates from flaring outward. I see carriage bolt holes top & bottom on the side plates and on one of the photos a corresponding carriage bolt hole at the top of the blade. Do you use a diagonal brace through these holes or do you find that a brace is not needed?

Sorry, not meaning here to Runner's post.

 

[Runner]

RedDirt - Nice build. Those look like they will work well.

I have the same problem getting the bandsaw to cut straight and shim it just like you.

mjncad - the holes in my Frontier blade are located at the top of the blade and I still can't figure out what they're for.

 

[RedDirt]

mjncad - the holes in my Frontier blade are located at the top of the blade and I still can't figure out what they're for.

That square hole is what I thought may be for a diagonal brace for the optional side plates.

But I don't see (on yours) the lower round hole that mjncad has for his side plates. (?)

 

[mjncad]

Thank you for the photos.

I had thought some diagonal bracing would be needed to keep the side plates from flaring outward. I see carriage bolt holes top & bottom on the side plates and on one of the photos a corresponding carriage bolt hole at the top of the blade. Do you use a diagonal brace through these holes or do you find that a brace is not needed?

Sorry, not meaning here to Runner's post.

I use the end plates as is from the factory and haven't felt the need for more bracing. They are pretty stout and heavy.

 

[mjncad]

mjncad - the holes in my Frontier blade are located at the top of the blade and I still can't figure out what they're for.

Your guess is as good as mine as to their purpose. They could be part of the manufacturing process and serve no other purpose. Or it could be that Frontier is using the same moldboard for other implements where the round hole does useful things. It's cheaper to punch the hole for all the moldboards, without the logistics headache of figuring out how many need round holes and how many don't.

 

[SkunkWerX]

Red Dirt,

I like that set-up. If you take it easy there is no reason you should destroy those wheels, not in the short run, at least.

Being able to swivel your blade 360 is a nice feature, also, that long length will benefit you by giving more of a grader effect, minimizng and bumps and depressions.

The on thing I am mindful of, is to lower my 3PH gently, so i don't stress the wheels and torque the arms as they make contact with the ground.

Can't wait to hear how make out with your first few runs!!

Looking good.

 

[RedDirt]

The silicone dust covers on the HF wheel pivot bearings finally cured enough to move the two parts. It took a few days. The portion that was greased (for release)still wanted to stick so I had to use a thin narrow blade to gently release the silicone from the moving race. The cover is softer than I thought it would be. Perhaps it will just take more cure time in this cool weather. It doesn't seem like the covers will hold up very long...time and use will tell. I used GE brand "Silicone I". Perhaps a different brand/product would be stiffer.

SkunkWerX,
Thank you for the compliments. I do hope the wheels will last the first project which is a fairly good sized one planned for the spring. After that expected use will be minimal, periodic road maintenance. My initial trial worked great. I've only tried pulling and not yet pushing. I do have my lowering speed set quite slow. Maybe two to three seconds from full up to resting on the ground.

mjncad,
Thanks again for the photos and follow up comments. I'll try my side plates first without additional bracing. I can always add bracing later if it seems the plates are getting too much stress.

 

[wedge40]

I just got mine done tonight and anxious to try it out tomorrow. I really like the trailer jack idea but after buying steel for 6 projects I needed to keep cost down and I had the all-thread and bushing stock on hand.

Here's the end result. Still have to bore a couple of holes but want to try it out first; maybe there are different locations that aren't apparent now. This is set at furthest extension so I can swivel the blade 360 degrees.

View attachment 93514

Parts
I used 2x3x3/16 for the outriggers
2x2 "receiver stock" (not 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 x 1/4 standard which has the internal seam that has to be ground down) Receiver stock is a little more money but worth it.
2x2x3/16 extension arms
1" dia all-thread with 1"ID x 1 3/8"OD bushing stock
1/4" plate wheel foot
HF 8" pneumatic wheel - I'll silicone the ball bearing pivot race like someone here suggested (for a dust cover) and hope for the best.

Here are parts for one side

View attachment 93515


One of the most difficult process was jigging up to weld the outriggers onto the RB pivot. Lots of alignments to look at.

View attachment 93516


This was a very tight welding spot (below the blade pivot plate). Can't say I got any penetration because my angle was so low but I was able to get a bead in here. Other welds are 6011 1/8" root and 7018AC 1/8" over that.

View attachment 93517


This is the hight adjuster

View attachment 93518


And the wheel detail. The bushing was welded and gusseted to the 1/4" plate then the all thread was plug welded to the plate.

View attachment 93519


Welding done w/old Lincoln AC tombstone and Lincoln Weld Pack 100 HD wire feed, rosin core.

BTW - I too have a HF bandsaw. I've cut a fair amount of steel the past year. Motor is still OK. But I do have trouble getting it to cut (down) square with the table. I normally have to place my stock on the table shimmed 1/8"+/- (side to side) to get a plumb cut. This is especially noticeable once the blade has any wear. New blades are better but I can't replace them as often as it seems to need.

I like your design, but I'm curious why you couldn't have attached the square tube to the top edge of the blade. That way you could have a bead along the whole length of the tube. It's darn cold outside to go look at mine but dont these things come apart. That would have been my other suggestion was to take the blade apart before doing the weld.

Just my 2 cents.

Wedge

 

[RedDirt]

I like your design, but I'm curious why you couldn't have attached the square tube to the top edge of the blade. That way you could have a bead along the whole length of the tube. It's darn cold outside to go look at mine but dont these things come apart. That would have been my other suggestion was to take the blade apart before doing the weld.

Just my 2 cents.

Wedge

There are many different methods of mounting gauge wheels illustrated on TBN. I liked this one for the flexibility it allows.

I wanted to retain the ability to rotate the blade 360 degrees. The top of my blade is a tad less than 2" from the bottom of the 3PH arms so there isn't room to mount the receiver on the blade itself unless I notched into the top of the blade.

My blade does not come apart. The rotation indexing plate is welded onto the rotating shaft.

 

[Runner]

RE: attaching the wheels to the top of the blade - mine are that way, and I was surprised to see how much the blade flexed when supported by the wheels. I'm actually a little concerned about bending it.

RE: 360 degree rotation - I too was concerned about that, and that is why I limited the lentgh of my receiver tubes - they would have been longer and perhaps worked better, but I needed them to clear the rest of the frame when spinning the blade.

 

[RedDirt]

I couldn't wait until spring to try out the wheels. Used them for plowing the driveway. They worked great. Set the blade angle reversed (backwards) at one notch and the wheels offset to match. Set the wheels so blade was about 1 1/2 inches off the floor when tractor was on shop concrete. Only scalped the gravel drive in a few spots; very minor.

(in this photo the 3PH is in raised position)

 

[2manyrocks]

I got my wheels done before the weather turned bad, but I did sneak in some grading when it was in the 50's earlier this week, then back to hibernation for me.

Good looking dog, too.