Another Fence Thread

[rokit]

I'm on 8 acres in the Mojave desert, and building a fence around the perimeter of the property. I'd like some advice/commentary.

We already have a "yard fence" near the house which encompasses the pool and landscaped back yard leisure area. It is 5' tall redwood plank. Our dogs (2 boxers) currently hang out there during the day and are in with us at night.

The perimeter has no fence, and our property is in some sort of natural funnel for strays and coyotes. We've had issues related to both our dogs and safety concerns for our 6-year-old son encountering these critters.

The purposes of the fence are as follows:
1) Keep stray dogs and coyotes from passing through freely.
2) Keep our dogs in should we let them into the bigger yard.
3) Keep unwanted humans deterred.
4) Add value to the property (we are zoned as Agricultural).
5) Be low maintenance.
6) Balance cost with effectiveness and durability

Our current dogs are not jumpers/diggers, but who knows what the future may hold. We will not have bait (aka livestock) kept while we're resident there

I currently have railroad tie posts every 10 feet along the road frontage, each 9' long and sunk 3' into the ground and with a 60# bag of Quikrete in each hole. My plan for the remainder is 4"x4"x.250" steel corners and gate posts, also 9'/3' in concrete. Between the corners and gates I'm planning on 8' T-posts 2' deep and spaced 10' apart.

I have not yet decided on a fabric scheme. Current candidates in my mind:
- 6' Red Brand No-Climb woven wire (12.5ga) = $1.98/lft
- 5' Red Brand No-Climb woven wire (12.5ga) + barbed wire @ 6' = $1.63/lft (hanging hazard?)
- 6' Red Brand welded wire (14ga) = $1.07/lft (I have durability concerns...)
- 6' Red Brand Deer/Wildlife woven wire (14.5ga) = $0.87/lft (again, durability concerns...)

Bracing:
At what distance interval should I plan on planting an H-brace? My property is pretty flat, and I will of course be stretching the fence fabric.

Splicing:
Should I plan on crimp splicing lengths of wire fabric together?

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

For dogs I prefer 6' height. I'd probably brace every 330ft where you tie off and start over. (BTW a tractor and home made stretcher out of two 2x4s work great for stretching)
:2cents:

 

[rokit]

It will definitely be 6' height.

Out of the options I mentioned, none of them come in 330' rolls. They're 100', 200', or 165' rolls.

 

[KYErik]

In terms of durability, are you worried about it rusting in two? It is pretty dry there right?

If you never plan to get livestock and have a tight budget, I'd go with the 6' 14.5 ga. Deer/wildlife woven wire. If you think you might ever want horses or plan to sell in your lifetime, then go with the 12.5 ga 5' no climb and then you (or the next owner) could electrify the barbed wire on top.

H- braces- closer is better but I'd say every 200 yards. Look at your neighbors fences as well as how the highway dept does it in your area.

Crimping splices is best. Are you familiar with how to stretch it properly?

 

[rokit]

We average 5" rain a year. My durability concerns have more to do with sagging or breakage in the long term. 14/14.5ga is near 1/5th less steel than 12.5 (hence the price difference). I'm also concerned about welds holding up over time...maybe I'm hand-wringing over nothing (?).

If some knuckleheaded human does try to climb it, I'd say the thin stuff may not fare too well.

As far as stretching goes, I've stretched a few fences for others in the past, but I'm not sure how proper it was (or wasn't). The plan is to tie off at the far corner/brace/gate post, unroll, attach stretcher (two boards with thru-bolts sandwiching the mesh and a wire-rope V to attach to), anchor to tractor FEL, adjust height, apply initial tension, get mesh vertical, adjust height again, apply full tension with come-along, clip to posts, terminate at near corner/gate/brace post. What'd I miss?

 

[KYErik]

I agree on the welded joints likely breaking when you stretch it- that's why I recommend the woven.

It sounds like you have the stretching part figured out. My first time putting up a woven wire fence was a learning experience (keeping the top and bottom even)

How square is your property? Are the neighboring properties fenced? Are you more worried about a person climbing your fence to get to your home or just someone who is trying to pass across your property to the other side? If they are wanting to steal- I would say they would bring cutters and the gauge of fence wouldn't matter. If your property was some sort of "shortcut" and the other properties are fenced, then I think climbers would be more likely.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

It will definitely be 6' height.

Out of the options I mentioned, none of them come in 330' rolls. They're 100', 200', or 165' rolls.

I'm pretty confident that most woven field wire comes primarily in 330ft (about 100 meters) lengths. Were you looking at a Home Depot or something? Shorter length is more work on flat straight runs. :confused3: should be cheaper per foot too.

 

[rokit]

How square is your property? Are the neighboring properties fenced? Are you more worried about a person climbing your fence to get to your home or just someone who is trying to pass across your property to the other side? If they are wanting to steal- I would say they would bring cutters and the gauge of fence wouldn't matter. If your property was some sort of "shortcut" and the other properties are fenced, then I think climbers would be more likely.

The property is a perfect rectangle (264'x1320'). One neighbor has a 5' fence in OK condition up along 1/6-edge of my property, but I cannot tie into it due to a utility easement there. Another neighbor along a different 1/6-edge has a poor fence up 4' beyond my property line (i.e.: I wouldn't really want to tie into it even if I could).

The primary security concern is animals (strays and coyotes). Secondary is humans, but it only takes one knucklehead to damage a weak wire fence (did I mention I have a growing son and that he has friends?). While I agree that a wire fence won't stop a crook, a fence is a first-order deterrent. Also, here in CA, private property not fenced/walled off is not truly private for legal purposes (i.e.: how you can deal with trespassers changes).

 

[rokit]

I'm pretty confident that most woven field wire comes primarily in 330ft (about 100 meters) lengths. Were you looking at a Home Depot or something? Shorter length is more work on flat straight runs. :confused3: should be cheaper per foot too.

For woven field wire, I'd agree based upon what I've found so far. The trick is that "woven field wire" tops out at 48" height. The taller (60" & 72") woven and welded stuff is called "horse fence" or "wildlife fence" (Red Brand & Bekaert terminology, not mine) and comes in only 100', 200', or 165' rolls as far as I can find (Rural King and Tractor Supply). Do you know of a source for taller woven stuff in 330'?

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

For woven field wire, I'd agree based upon what I've found so far. The trick is that "woven field wire" tops out at 48" height. The taller (60" & 72") woven and welded stuff is called "horse fence" or "wildlife fence" (Red Brand & Bekaert terminology, not mine) and comes in only 100', 200', or 165' rolls as far as I can find (Rural King and Tractor Supply). Do you know of a source for taller woven stuff in 330'?

I've put up 6' Red Brand No-Climb before. I don't remember any welded component. It certainly stretched like a woven field fence. :confused3:

 

[gsganzer]

Don't use the welded wire, it's junk. I've used both a diamond no-climb fence product, and the rectangular Red Brand no-climb sold at TSC. I definitely prefer the stretch of the Red Brand.

 

[cmyoung2]

any of these fences will probably keep in your dogs, keeping stuff out os more difficult. Put an electric wire outside , low, and at the top. Keeps critters from digging under or climbing over. Also will deter any two legged critters from climbing, so fence will not sag.

 

[Argonne]

Last year I added mesh to the barbed wire surrounding the 2 acre homestead to keep our dogs in and critters out. I used the High Tensile Field Fence, 14 ga., 47 in x 330 ft. from TSC and Atwoods (cleaned TSC out). I have been very happy with it. Although it is only 4 feet high, my dogs and the critters outside don't jump it. Humans are another issue, but they will trash anything they climb and you will be doing a repair at any rate...might as well save the money up front and repair as needed. I had a human issue on another section of fence a couple of years ago and ended up installing a stinger wire even with the top wire but mounted on the inside of the posts and spaced 2 inches in. Pretty cheap deterrent for casual intruders.

Personally, I think 6 foot fences are a waste of money and look weird. I don't think you gain much from that considerable cost increase. I've never seen anything jump my 4 foot, and deer will jump an 8 foot.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

Last year I added mesh to the barbed wire surrounding the 2 acre homestead to keep our dogs in and critters out. I used the High Tensile Field Fence, 14 ga., 47 in x 330 ft. from TSC and Atwoods (cleaned TSC out). I have been very happy with it. Although it is only 4 feet high, my dogs and the critters outside don't jump it. Humans are another issue, but they will trash anything they climb and you will be doing a repair at any rate...might as well save the money up front and repair as needed. I had a human issue on another section of fence a couple of years ago and ended up installing a stinger wire even with the top wire but mounted on the inside of the posts and spaced 2 inches in. Pretty cheap deterrent for casual intruders.

Personally, I think 6 foot fences are a waste of money and look weird. I don't think you gain much from that considerable cost increase. I've never seen anything jump my 4 foot, and deer will jump an 8 foot.

Are your dogs little and fat? Lol. Just kidding.

 

[rokit]

Are your dogs little and fat? Lol. Just kidding.

Right? Lol...

Around here we have coyotes like crazy. Local consensus is that a coyote will clear a 5' fence, and can touch off the top wire/plank to get over a 5-1/2" fence. They'll either pass on a 6-footer or dig under. This is based on the experience of the locals (many of them with bait, aka chickens). Without bait, they tend to move on to easier pickins.

My boxer dog sire could (and repeatedly did) get over a 6' cedar plank privacy fence - he'd jump, hook his paws over the top and use momentum and pull to get over.

 

[Argonne]

Are your dogs little and fat? Lol. Just kidding.

Lol, no, they're 100 lb GSDs. They could definitely jump the 4 foot fence if they wanted to, but thus far, they respect it. If they ever do take to jumping it, life will change here dramatically. I figure if I keep them well fed and happy, they'll respect my largely psychological barrier.

As for the coyotes, there is nothing particularly enticing on my homestead. On the contrary, I have 3 big dogs that are quite protective of their turf and are out any time they want (big dog doors). I recognize that if I had poultry, I would have coyotes jumping that fence, but then I would be penning them at night, and the dogs would still provide a deterrent.

It's the 4 foot mesh fence that the dogs respect that allows me to let them roam the homestead 24/7. Without the perimeter fence as a primary means of separating the critters from the dogs, there's no way I could have the dog doors. So far it's working out very well.

Having said that, there was one gate I hadn't meshed and my 4 year old male tangled with a coyote last week. I have now meshed the gate.