Another 3pt logging winch thread

[John_Mc]

Tajfun is a highly regarded brand. I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

I've often wished there was a good workshop I could attend to get pointers on using a logging winch. I've taught myself over the years, but I'm sure I could pick up a lot from a well-organized hands-on workshop: something like the Game of Logging chainsaw classes, but focused on getting the wood out of the forest, rather than getting the wood down on the ground.

 

[2manyrocks]

You could probably come up with a list of winching tips. What would be your number one tip?

 

[cmyoung2]

I agree, a log winching workshop would be great. I use an old Farmi 410, has legs instead of the blade, with a Kubota L3600 -38hp. Plenty of power, found out really quick I don't need remote control, really need to be watching both the tractor and the log or you can move the tractor very easily. Don't winch a single log down hill, it will roll where you don't want it to. Have at least 2 logs chained together so they can't roll, and make SURE they can't come apart. Never be down hill of either the tractor or the log, and stay out of striking distance of the cable. The thought of an automatic brake really scares me, sometimes you really need to be able to release the pressure by dropping the winch rope. The learning curve is very steep, even steeper on steep ground. And this is from someone 65+ that has been around equipment all my life, but just got the winch last year. Have fun, be careful, they are awesome attachments.

 

[rumwrks]

Now, anyone know of a good sources of "how not to kill yourself with a logging winch" videos or threads.....

Some good reasons why your average farm tractor is a problem in the woodlot here. I took some of this as prescriptive in regards to adding skid plates and guards where it was possible to do so, fire protection, first aid kit, radio.

Tractors in the Woods

Hazards and safety recommendations that farm and rural landowners should consider when planning to clear fence rows, cut firewood, or transport farm wood products.

extension.psu.edu

The classic "farm tractor in the forest" has a lot of good information as well

https://www.maine.gov/dacf/mfs/publications/general_publications/farm_tractor_in_the_forest.pdf

I found the latter from the "Logging with the Farm Tractor" series on youtube that Bombadil Tree Farms posted (while I was researching winches) - I believe he has 4 tractor specific videos there but I thought his firewood tub train idea was pretty good as well:

Bombadil Tree Farms

Share your videos with friends, family, and the world

www.youtube.com

 

[rumwrks]

Now, anyone know of a good sources of "how not to kill yourself with a logging winch" videos or threads.....

Separate from the winch/tractor aspect is the general tree work, clearing, falling, chainsaw and axe work. I don't know how much experience you have there so take this as sort of the first round.

If you don't have much it might well be worth while looking around for a local felling and chainsaw handling class.

My main advice here is "know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, and know when to run".

Even small trees or limbs under tension can be deadly. Chainsaws have a unique set of hazards, invest in some proper PPE (boots, chaps, face guard).

Anything other than a straight up and down solid tree adds substantially to the risk. I'm especially cautious around any sort of heavily leaning trees which can have a high risk of barber chair, and trees with ANY rot which can collapse or otherwise fall/kick back/do other unexpected things. Some of those I just leave until mother nature does her work.Some can be take out with some care if you're familiar with the techniques to do so...

You also have to get some understanding of the local wood. Where I'm at the fir is pretty easy to deal with for the most part. The oregon white oak is also fairly decent to deal with as long as it's not rotten in the center. On the other hand there is a lot of ash which gets both brittle and rotten when it gets older and some maple that tends to have some heavy side weight and can be extremely brittle at times. Those trees require more care and some I also just leave until they come down on their own. Trees with dead tops or limbs overhead also need some thought, a 4" or even 2" limb landing on you point down can be a life changing event....

There's also a lot of situational decisions.... There's a big old fir in my front yard that I'm not real comfortable with (lone firs lack support structure and it's leaning kind of the wrong way.. towards the house and shop). That one I'll hire out. I had a similar situation where I took down a row of trees next to his house, we got to the last one right by the house and he asked "what about the last one", and I said "It's leaning towards your house to hard, I don't have insurance, you're hiring someone to come in and take that down in pieces". In either of those cases, 90-95% odds I could have dropped the tree right where I wanted it and not had a problem.. BUT the cost of failure is/was high so it's not worth it.

I would suggest starting small, practice good practices and kind of work your way up. Get some help from someone with some experience if you can at all find it, they'll have a ton of "well I didn't know that, but I'm sure glad I learned" pointers.

 

[John_Mc]

There are a lot of safety tips, but here's a more practical "operations" tip.

Some guidance to avoid creating a "birds nest" on your winch drum. That tangled up mess can prevent a cable from unspooling and at worst can ruin a cable with kinks. Even if you don't end up with a complete tangled mess, a loosely wound cable can cause problems when you wind more cable on top of it under a heavy load: That tight outer wrap can pull down in between the looser cables below and just about lock in there. You haven't lived until you've wasted an hour digging a stuck strand back off the drum.

First thing when you get your winch mounted on the tractor and before using it under load:

Release the brake and hook the cable end to a tree or other anchor, and drive off down a slight slope until the drum has only 5 or 6 wraps left on it. Put the tractor in neutral and winch it back up the hill until the cable is rewound onto the drum under load. I do this at the start of every season, when I have not been using the winch in a while. I'll also do it from time to time during my prime logging season, especially if I've had some rewinds where there may not have been good tension on the line.

Along the same lines: any time you are winding in cable, make sure there is at least some load on it. If I don;t have a log on the end or if a self-releasing snatch block just released, I'll often step on the cable to create bit of drag. If I'm working with someone and need to wind in a length, I'll sometimes have them grab the end and lean against it as I wind it in. Anything to create at least a little tension while reeling in helps keep the windings on the drum in order.

 

[ericm979]

To tension the cable I think it's safer to put the tractor stationary at the top of the hill and winch something heavy up to it. I use a UTV with a driver in it.

The drum tension adjustment is critical. Too tight and it's hard to pull cable, especially up hill or a lot of cable (long ways from the winch). Too loose and the drum freewheels and the cable birdnests.

I think a self releasing snatch block is vital. I like the Igland from Stewardship Supplies. It doesn't have a gap where the cable can get wedged, and releases easily especially if you use it upside down.

I use it with nylon load straps. I got the ones with extra material on the eyes to protect them but that makes the eyes stiff so they sometimes unhook themselves from the pointy bit on the block that's supposed to keep them. Some folks here have welded an extension on there but I have yet to do it.

 

[John_Mc]

I found the latter from the "Logging with the Farm Tractor" series on youtube that Bombadil Tree Farms posted (while I was researching winches) - I believe he has 4 tractor specific videos there but I thought his firewood tub train idea was pretty good as well:

Bombadil Tree Farms

Share your videos with friends, family, and the world

www.youtube.com

I had completely forgotten about that series. (I even have it bookmarked.) I do some things a little differently than he does, but he's got some good stuff there.

 

[John_Mc]

To tension the cable I think it's safer to put the tractor stationary at the top of the hill and winch something heavy up to it. I use a UTV with a driver in it.

You are right, it probably is safer to drag an item to the tractor. The problem is, I'm usually doing that procedure at home, where I don't have big logs handy... plus, my wife would kill me if I dragged a big log across the yard.

 

[Gordon Gould]

If you have never been around a winch, set one up on a tractor, or been shown the basic features and how they work I think this video by Hud-Son is very good. It deals with a specific model but most of it pertains to any winch.

Hud-Son Forest Equipment Uniforest forestry skidding winch set up and mounting to a PTO on a Tractor - Hud-son

Hud-Son Forest Equipment Uniforest forestry skidding winch set up and mounting to the PTO on a tractor Chapters: 0:00 Intro 2:34 How to unload winch off a truck 5:36 Mounting Winch to Tractor 12:02 Cutting PTO to Length 30:50 Pre operation check...

www.hud-son.com

As far as operating tips for a winch goes, and there are so many tips because there are an infinite number of situations, to me the most important is start small and work slow. Set your RPM's a few hundred above idle. I run mine at about 1400 in the woods. If I'm skidding across a wide open field faster is fine. Start with small wood. Don't go out there with the "let's see what this thing can do" attitude because you might find out the hard way. To start you will have no idea or be able to recognize a bad situation or conversely how you could do the same thing easier. It takes time and experience. I don't mean to preach the obvious but it is important. Work slow so you have time to see everything that is happening and react. Have a peavy or cant hook with you and stop the pull before your log gets jammed up in a root crotch, walk out and lever the log over and away from the snag. If you pull on the rope to force it by it may work or you may get it jammed so tight you can't lever it away. Or once in a while the log will stand up in the air and flip over with the top coming towards you - not often at all, but those are the kinds of things that can happen. As you get a feel work your way up to bigger wood. Work slow, safe, and enjoy your self.

gg

 

[John_Mc]

To Gordon's great post, I will just add one point:

Starting small is a great way to learn as you go, but the "go slow" is also important. Don't assume that just because you are pulling a 6" pole that you don't have anything to worry about. Sometimes those will whip around more easily than that 24" oak you are pulling out.

 

[rumwrks]

Also here's an online manual for the 45A (I can't find it on the tajfun site.. and my winch didn't actually come with a hard copy.. but I'd already found the 35a manual at another site so no problem).

https://www.br-equipment.com/sites/default/files/downloads/_egv45a_egv55a_egv65a_egv85a_en_0.pdf

 

[WranglerX]

T

First thing when you get your winch mounted on the tractor and before using it under load:

Release the brake and hook the cable end to a tree or other anchor, and drive off down a slight slope until the drum has only 5 or 6 wraps left on it. Put the tractor in neutral and winch it back up the hill until the cable is rewound onto the drum under load. I do this at the start of every season, when I have not been using the winch in a while. I'll also do it from time to time during my prime logging season, especially if I've had some rewinds where there may not have been good tension on the line.

Along the same lines: any time you are winding in cable, make sure there is at least some load on it. If I don;t have a log on the end or if a self-releasing snatch block just released, I'll often step on the cable to create bit of drag. If I'm working with someone and need to wind in a length, I'll sometimes have them grab the end and lean against it as I wind it in. Anything to create at least a little tension while reeling in helps keep the windings on the drum in order.

I do this often with my recovery winch on my Jeep after a questionable operation(pull) ....

 

[Code54]

Thanks all.

I been winching for 35 years with Jeeps/Atvs/trucks but the logging winch is all new and a different animal so the info is super helpful. I will go slow for sure! Gussing no one throws a towel or blanket on the line for these since you can stay well to the side?

Do you all find chain chokers or cable chokers are better (and why). Need to order a few. the winch wont be in for 8-10 weeks so I have some time to get eveyrthing I want and learn a lot more.

 

[John_Mc]

Chains vs cable for chokers seems to be a matter of personal preference, but it's also a regional thing. Everyone I know around here uses chain chokers. In other parts of the country, everyone uses cable chokers.

I do find chains easier to store either on the tractor or in the barn.

 

[Jstpssng]

You could probably come up with a list of winching tips. What would be your number one tip?

Don't winch sideways. Always pull toward the direction the tractor is facing.

 

[Gordon Gould]

I like chain chokers because on a tractor winch you cannot pull the slider end of the chokers into the winch like you can on a skidder. If you want to get the hitch off the ground you would need a whole assortment of cable choker lengths. With chain chokers you can adjust the choker length in the keyhole slider. Also if your winch has a slotted rack you will need chain chokers to use it.

gg

 

[dougtrr2]

I haven't actually had occasion to see if this idea worked, but here it is anyway.

When I had my cable spooled completely out, I left 10 feet bare, then painted the next 10 feet red. I had been doing some long pulls. The thought is, if I see red, I better be close to hooking up. If it goes back to silver, I REALLY, need to be hooking up.

I did that, and have never had that much cable spooled out since.

Mentioned up thread earlier. Pull in a straight line. It is tempting to go at an angle when making multiple pulls, be it is really scary to see your tractor tipping as opposed to rearing straight up.

One minor issue I have with my Kubota BX. I generally pull at idle or just above. I don't want to slip the clutch any more than I have to. My little tractor doesn't like to be under load at idle for extended periods. From time to time I have to rev it up for a while to clear it out.


Doug in SW IA

 

[John_Mc]

The owners manual for my winch does not limit you to pulling for straight behind. It specifies a maximum of 30˚ from straight behind when pulling. I've found that to be a reasonable maximum angle, though I do try to set up for less than that - generally aiming for as straight behind the tractor as I can get when it's easy to do so.

In addition to the danger of rolling over from a hard side pull, it's also possible to bend the 3 Pt hitch lower arms. They are designed for a more or less straight pull. The further off that straight line you get, the more side load you are putting on the winch and 3 Pt Hitch. (The blade on the winch does not dig in and resist side loads as much as it does rearward loads.)

 

[rumwrks]

I went with chain for two reasons

First I could find them easier, so that was a big selling point

Second, and if I'm wrong here please someone correct me, but I didn't see how you'd choke the cable chokers up short when you're using the winch to drag logs and the chain is easy to adjust where you hook it up.

I think a self releasing snatch block is vital. I like the Igland from Stewardship Supplies. It doesn't have a gap where the cable can get wedged, and releases easily especially if you use it upside down.

The only self releasing blocks I can find online are the stewardship supplies and the one (I guess they actually have two but it's just different bodies, same block) Hud-Son sells. I don't really have any experience with either but am certainly interested in any comparisons (or other options..). The Igland looks maybe? a touch heavier but I can't find actual dimensions on either of them. The Igland is $50 cheaper but also back ordered until April.. The local forestry supply place (which is large and has apparently everything else..) didn't have any either (despite having regular blocks from 3" up to 24"..).