Almost had a SEDGEWOOD!!!!!!!

RegL · Oct 12, 2005

I know this thread is pretty old, but I just had a situation that could be related to the fire I had last year. Day before yesterday, my son and I were in the shop looking for something when the PT, that was sitting out in the yard, started to crank all by it's lonesome. Like some ghost wanted to go for a joy ride. Kind of scary having the rouge PT running around snapping at folks with the grapple bucket.Anyway, after the dumb stare my son and I gave each other for a couple seconds, I scrambled to find a wrench and disconnect the battery cable. I actually bought a disconnect switch last winter after the fire. It's hanging on a nail in the shop and I think I'm going to get it installed this time, right after I get the PT on my insurance policy which I have been meaning to do for some time.

I did a little on the spot trouble shooting and determined that the start relay was being energized from up stream toward the ignition switch. The tractor had been sitting out in the heave rain for a couple days and once I got things dried out there was no more problem, so I'm pretty sure short was caused by moisture , probably in the ignition switch. I wonder if that can be replaced with one that's more weather proof. I'll check right after I get that disconnect switch installed, lol.

stray · Oct 12, 2005

Good INFO Regl!! Thanks for sharing.

weaver · Oct 16, 2005

That is strange that the fire has started from starter sol. I have a 1430 with 70 hours on it and when I shut it off to go to lunch it started all by itself and actually ran( I left key in it). Also the other morning i woke up and the starter solienod was trying to start the motor (No key in ) and drained the battery. When I leave it unattended I unplug battery leads. Did any of you have these problems before fire?

Sedgewood · Oct 17, 2005

That is strange that the fire has started from starter sol. I have a 1430 with 70 hours on it and when I shut it off to go to lunch it started all by itself and actually ran( I left key in it). Also the other morning i woke up and the starter solienod was trying to start the motor (No key in ) and drained the battery. When I leave it unattended I unplug battery leads. Did any of you have these problems before fire? 

Wow, this is very interesting. The investigator who investigated the fire in my 1845 pointed out that the start wire to the solenoid was carrying current when it burned through (evidenced by a "blob" of copper at the severed ends). We never did figure out exactly why that wire would have been carrying current, at least not to my satisfaction. To this day I don't know definitively what caused the fire. I hadn't experienced the "self-starting" prior to the fire (I was out mowing when she took fire) and it just didn't seem reasonable that it would be "self-starting". I didn't hear anything over the noise of the engine any mower but your experience makes me wonder....

I haven't had this happen since I rebuilt the tractor after the fire but I most likely replaced whatever might have been causing the "self-starting" - the whole thing was rewired.

So, IF a 1430/1845 etc. can "self-start" while already running and IF that "self-starting" might have caused my fire, if I were you I would take this very seriously and try to find the exact cause ASAP.

I'd be very interested if hearing what you find.

Good luck,
Sedgewood

J_J · Oct 17, 2005

It is easy to check out your switch if you have the know how, and a meter,

I had starter problems, and fixed them by running a new start wire through the tunnel. It would be very difficult to visually check all those wires through the tunnel. If your switch is good, It would have to be a couple of wires in that wire bundle that are rubbing together.

RegL · Oct 17, 2005

( It is easy to check out your switch if you have the know how, and a meter,

I had starter problems, and fixed them by running a new start wire through the tunnel. It would be very difficult to visually check all those wires through the tunnel. If your switch is good, It would have to be a couple of wires in that wire bundle that are rubbing together. )

Your right JJ,that electrical troubles can be easy to find if their in solid. The problem with this trouble is that it's very intermittent and when it happens, one is more worried about finding a wrench to remove battery cables than find a meter to shoot trouble. The latest self cranking trouble I did at least isolate to upstream from the start relay, probably in the switch or somewhere in the black box in the engine compartment.( I have to open that thing up some day and see what's in there.). I had left the tractor out in some very heavy rain so I figured it was water related.

J_J · Oct 17, 2005

Did PT give you guys any kind of electrical diagram to use in trouble shooting your system. They claim that they don't have any electrical drawings for my 1445. I just do trial and error when any thing goes wrong.

I believe that I would put the PT up on blocks before starting some serious trouble shooting. It just might want to start, and drive away on its own. What I am getting to is, that you don't want to put yourself in danger in case wiggling those wires causes it to start. You might even try squirting water in the switch or wetting everything down.

I was an electronics technician in the Navy many years ago, and I still call on some of that experience to help me solve problems.

I don't know how complicated your system is, but in mine, I by-passed the old start circuit and wired in a new one, I know the color wire, where it is located, and what to do if it doesn't work.

Pt should get a clue, about their machines , and who works on them. IT IS THE OWNER. , and therefore, they should go to extra ordinary efforts to keep us inform. This crap of having to call Terry about every little thing is for the birds. Warranty, what a deal, they get to send out new parts and hope that the owner don't whine a lot about putting the part in.

It wouldn't take much for another company to come in and surpass them in building machines and overwhelm them in customer support, providing detail manuals, and electrical diagrams, pictures, etc. There is nothing high tech in the machines. We as a collective body could probably build a machine, but we don't have the money.

A little off the beaten path, but there , I said it.

menchhofer · Oct 17, 2005

Pt should get a clue, about their machines , and who works on them. IT IS THE OWNER. , and therefore, they should go to extra ordinary efforts to keep us inform. This crap of having to call Terry about every little thing is for the birds. Warranty, what a deal, they get to send out new parts and hope that the owner don't whine a lot about putting the part in.

It wouldn't take much for another company to come in and surpass them in building machines and overwhelm them in customer support, providing detail manuals, and electrical diagrams, pictures, etc. There is nothing high tech in the machines. We as a collective body could probably build a machine, but we don't have the money.
)

Amen. Very good comments and so true. Could not have said it better myself.

BobRip · Oct 17, 2005

When I bought my PT 422 I was told that it was not designed to be left out doors. The key switch sure does not look water proof. I suggest you find a friend who is good at electrical trouble shooting and isolate this problem.

Bob Rip

blackwell · Oct 18, 2005

After using PT's for over 10 years and our people have put over 12,000 hours on 6 models and now on the second generation of three models, we have never had to call Terry to ask tech questions nor do I have a problem with PT's parts manuals. I don't understand all the complaining, unless you don't understand the simplicity of the PT or you want PT to give you all the vender numbers. nobody does that.
I can easilly find the part in any PT parts book, then just call their parts dept and you have the part in a day or two. I have always got the right part the first time and at a reasonably price without searching on ebay or thru surplus hyd books.
I have designed and built special eg for industry most of my life, it is easy to design things, but it is very hard to design things that are simple, and a PT is one of the simplist designs I have ever seen, yet it works great. I do not see how PT produces them at the price they do, I have looked thru their plant and their entire place is run like the design of a PT, simple, efficent, accurate, and very clean.
I think most of you complainers, would like for PT to give you every drawing of every part and the source of every component they purchase, ask CAT or JD and they will laugh at you. They give you plenty of information and supply quick parts service, so whats the problem? Look around, maybe it's the person do the repair. I'd like to see the tractor some of you would would design, especially if it looked like some of the "attachments" seen on TBN that were built for PT's.
I have seen some of the high tech things PT has been testing and it is cutting edge technology, however PT tells me they are worried that they will make their machines to complex for the average owner to repair and to sell thru servicing dealers would add at least 30% to the current price and push their price out of the market range.
I for one, say keep it simple, strong and priced right, and I will keep coming back and I believe others will to.
EB

BobRip · Oct 18, 2005

Amen to that. I think PT has the best support that I have seen. When you call most companies today, you get a non-technical person who ask you questions from a script. I like being able to talk to the expert (when needed) and get a straight answer.

We also have to remember that the power of the Internet brings many of the problems together on one site and makes them look more numerous than they really are. There are thousands of users with few and no problems and a few with some problems. So let's keep the info and solutions coming, but realize that all machines have some problems and that tractors can be abused just by where and how they are used.

Bob Rip

KentT · Oct 18, 2005

( So let's keep the info and solutions coming, but realize that all machines have some problems and that tractors can be abused just by where and how they are used.

)Then there's even those of us who go ahead and do things that Tazewell doesn't recommend or specifically recommends against, like reversing wheels, loading tires with fluid for weight, adding wheel weights, using thicker hydraulic fluid, etc.

Rick_Taylor · Oct 19, 2005

Blackwell, I'm very happy for you that you've never had to call Terry about a problem. Some of us have not been that lucky. When my 425 broke in half at the lower joint, I felt the need for some knowledgable help. Also, when my tram pump's Lovejoy sheared the pin because someone forgot to install the setscrews, I felt the need for some spiritual guidance. Yes, I was able to repair them both but it wasn't because of much help from Tazewell. You said you had never had any problem with the PT parts manuals. WHAT parts manuals? I have never seen a parts manual for my 425, nor any attachments. I have never received so much as a 'ya'll be careful" I don't think it would have bankrupted the company to at least have included some cursory instructions on the safe and effective use of their products. I don't consider the above thread about a PT catching fire whining. These guys had a very serious problem occur. I commend you on your spotless record of PT use, but I also think you have been very lucky. You might want to lighten up on the "whiners" a bit. It might still be you next time.

MossRoad · Oct 19, 2005

Well, that's one of the differences between a commercial user and a homeowner. You are in business to make money and homeowners are in the business to not spend money. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think the PT is an outstanding product. And as you stated, the simplicity is what makes it so outstanding. I knew I could do any repairs to any problems that might arise so I was comfortable relying on myself instead of a dealer network. I also was familiar with the warranty policy for the first year... it breaks, you supply labor or ship the unit back and they supply labor. Once that year is up, all problems will be solved by me with parts support from PT or local vendors if I choose.

People have to know this before purchase.

However, a catastrophic stuctural failure has got to be the most dissatisfying, upsetting thing I could imagine. Then you have to start looking at the cause... operator abuse or manufacturing defect, for example, a bad weld. So do you eat your pride, make the repair, let it go, and move on with your life? Or do you report it to the factory, the community and seek resolution from the person that made the defect?

Tough choices. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Barryh · Oct 19, 2005

Complaining? I think not, just a discussion on how to make manuals and materials a little better nothing wrong with that. A little de cafe might be in order here fellows.

Great machine, good support, but the manual could defiantly use a lot of work. Including a trouble shooting section for those of us with a lesser background. Also would save Terry a lot of phone calls.

As far as leaving it out in the rain I would at least throw a tarp over it. Those of us that modify, or go against recommendations must except that we may pay the price later. Just the chance you take.

I consider myself a decent wrench, or I would have gone with something in the BX line that had dealer support. That said, I am very happy I had the option to get a simple well built machine for half the price.

J_J · Oct 19, 2005

Blackwell, I guess you must be their favorite customer, with all the PT's you have bought from them. Maybe you do know all the ins and out about every little thing on the different models, or maybe all of your crew has a collective knowledge about the PT's. Your budget is probable better than most of us, and I think is great to be able to pick up the phone and say send it. If one of your machines don't work. you just grab another. and have your mechanic fix it. Your comment about the attachments was down right rude A lot of us like to build things, and for you to say things on a negative level about our efforts is just bad . We are trying to make things better for us. not you. If you want to offer constructive criticism, do it. I for one don't have a manual of any kind , and can not find one. Pt seems to have parts manual, and have sent several wrong parts, I assumed it was correct and welded the part in. It will work, but not as before. Parts are reasonable, not true. Three hundred for a hyd pump is not reasonable if I can buy it new for $109.00 I also build things, and what I build is really no ones business . Maybe you are an engineer, and we are just technicians. We each have our own ideas about things. Your comment about owner repair, Pt just loves that aspect of their business. They don't want to get into the repair business. [ Look around, maybe it's the person doing the repair] What are you trying to say here, that we are stupid or something. We have to use the knowledge that we have and the resources.

pah · Oct 19, 2005

No disrespect intended but if these things are so simple why not point out the answer to this electrical/starter problem rather than providing a comercial for power-trac.

blackwell · Oct 19, 2005

If we had your machine at our shop it could be fixed in an hour, but can't determine your problem without running the proper tests.

blackwell · Oct 19, 2005

I don't mean any disrespect to anyone for their efforts or designs and I realize that PT's are modified as much or maybe more than any machine I know.
We don,t have the option of of grabbing another machine if one lets go, they are all located at different areas.
Yes, we have had things break, quit, burn, wear out, leak, blow, etc., the same as anyone else, however they have been no greater than on any other equipment we have ever owned.
My entire point is PT's are so simple to repair, just steel frames that you can weld (not cast iron like most), engines that can be serviced anywhere, hyd pumps and motors that are easy to repair, cylinders and hose that are easy to repair or replace, simple mechanical linkage, tires and wheels and an electrical system that is easy to repair.
Maybe I just have a simple mind, but I can't see whats hard about making these repairs. We have replaced center swivel joints, cylinders, pumps, motors, engines, wiring, seats, batteries, tires wheels and more. We repair most of our engines, all our pumps, motors, cylinders, frames, and small items, but if you don't have this ability, just take the part off and send to PT and they will repair and return.
Good luck and sorry I offended you.

weaver · Oct 24, 2005

Sound like you guys better start a different thread on compainers /whinning. Well anyways I called Terry in tazwell and he said he has never heard of this problem or any other fire related problems. Found that a littel wierd since segwood bought mostly new parts to rebuild his machine. Terry sent me a new solinoid and starter switch. I am not satified with this I will inspect wiring and replace . I use mine commercially and depend on my 1430 to install fences and also landscape so I think getting insurance sounds like a good idea . /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif