Agco discussion from Farmtrac thread

[Robert_in_NY]

Bill, I do not have a bone to pick with Agco. If my local dealer was an Agco dealer I would be running all Agco equipment. As it is I am leaning towards changing over to Massey if my Agco dealer ends up a Massey dealer. But until I have a good Massey dealer I can not buy too much Agco equipment. A dealer is worth more to me then any paint or logo and you should know that about me by now.

I did like the old Allis Chalmers tractors. But as I said in my last post, when Agco bought Massey Ferguson they should have immediately started to implement Massey as their major brand in the US as well as the world. Instead they dragged White on for 8 more years of declining sales for that brand. Same with Agco-Allis. When they dropped the Allis name I felt they should have dropped the entire brand not just half the name. Why waste money making all new decals, literature, contracts and signs as well as marketing a very limited brand? Kill the brand all at once, don't drag it out. The money they spent on promoting "Agco" tractors could have been spent on promoting Massey tractors. Instead of changing all the signs, literature and decals they could have just asked the dealers to sign a new "Massey Ferguson" contract. Then they would have just shipped the signs they already have as well as the literature and other promotional material. All the marketing money would have been spent on Massey Ferguson. By 2000 Massey would have been a major player in the US market again and by now would be up there with Case-IH and New Holland (but still trailing Deere sadly).

I have always been partial to Massey as I cut my teeth learning to run a tractor on my grandfathers MF 135. I own my dads old Massey Harris 81RC he bought when he was a teenager to help rake the hay fields on my grandfathers farm (who used his 135 to bale with an old NH square baler). Sentiment wise I want Massey Ferguson to grow which is why Agco has irritated me over the years. They seem to keep wasting money on brands that they don't really want to keep. There are going to be hard feelings sooner or later when you drop a brand so do the damage all at once. Don't drag it out. Once the brands are done then any "brand" loyal guys will have to decide if changing brands is more important then a good dealer.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

What I'm finding so hard to believe is how your opinion has shifted as the thread moves along. Early on, you critisized AGCO for NOT holding on to old obsolete brand names, now you've completely flip flopped to say they should have dumped on the AGCO Allis name (and therefor, it's established dealers) immediately upon purchasing Massey Ferguson..Which is it going to be ? The one brand plan is a sound one, but has taken time to implement. Just as Deere has done in recent years, AGCO is slowly eliminating the small, low volume, low sales potential dealers.....The AGCO ALLIS dealers for the most part. Allis was deadwood from the beginning and has managed to fall off the charts for the most part. The only thing they bring to the table is the Gleaner name. With that slowly becoming essentially another Massey Ferguson combine, the name is ALL they have to offer. Never really being established out of the US and failing to hold on to what measly bit of market share Allis still had, it was only logical to finally do away with that line. But it would have been a HUGE disservice to their loyal customers and to their established dealer network to simply pull the plug unannounced. It has been for the most part, common knowledge amongst AGCO customers for some time that AGCO-Allis was doomed. Another issue is the fact that, as I eluded to earlier, AGCO dealers and Massey Ferguson dealers were once competitors and NOT cousins. There are many instances where MF dealers and AGCO dealers are literally neighbors. My MF dealer is right across the street from a long time Allis dealer who hasn't kept pace with the times. One goes away, the other stays and prospers. Pulling the plug on Allis dealers without due time for the adjustment would have alienated a large portion of AGCO's customer base. As it is with their slow implementation of the one brand stratagy, the former AGCO Allis customers simply walk across the street and continue to do business as usual. It's not at all UNCOMMON to find old Oliver, Minneapolis Moline, White, even Cockshutt customers at the parts counter at my favorite MF dealer.

What you PERCEIVE as poor marketing stratagy is in fact, the best way AGCO has to hold on to OLD customers, while attracting a NEW customer base. Like it or not, agree with it or not, it's working and working well. In the 2+ months of 2008, the Massey dealer I trade with has already sold more tractors than he did the entire year of 2006, and is on pace to triple his 2007 numbers. The switch is creating a stronger dealer within the company and NOT competing with its own dealers starving each other out. And we all know how important that a strong dealer is.......Agree with marketing stratagy or not. I see a leaner, tougher dealer emerging with a chance to survive and even to prosper in the coming times. Remember, we're headed into a different economic cycle that what we've been experiencing. In other words, times they are a'changin'. Old school ways might not be what it takes from here on out.

I've managed to learn a few things over the years. One is, even a mediocre plan, if followed diligently, can be made to succeed far beyond expectations and the best laid plans not followed can end in utter failure. AGCO seems to be on track with their new plan. (Which I think IS a good one) I've seen enough evidence in their future success to invest in 2 very expensive examples of their product. We'll see in a few years just how well it works. Based on the resiliency of Massey Ferguson over the years, I expect big things.

And for the record, the quality of Massey's PRODUCT seems to be on the upswing. I haven't had much opportunity to operate either of the new 583's but my son, the consumate Deere enthusiast, has had nothing but glowing reports.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

What I'm finding so hard to believe is how your opinion has shifted as the thread moves along. Early on, you critisized AGCO for NOT holding on to old obsolete brand names, now you've completely flip flopped to say they should have dumped on the AGCO Allis name (and therefor, it's established dealers) immediately upon purchasing Massey Ferguson..Which is it going to be ? The one brand plan is a sound one, but has taken time to implement. Just as Deere has done in recent years, AGCO is slowly eliminating the small, low volume, low sales potential dealers.....The AGCO ALLIS dealers for the most part. Allis was deadwood from the beginning and has managed to fall off the charts for the most part. The only thing they bring to the table is the Gleaner name. With that slowly becoming essentially another Massey Ferguson combine, the name is ALL they have to offer. Never really being established out of the US and failing to hold on to what measly bit of market share Allis still had, it was only logical to finally do away with that line. But it would have been a HUGE disservice to their loyal customers and to their established dealer network to simply pull the plug unannounced. It has been for the most part, common knowledge amongst AGCO customers for some time that AGCO-Allis was doomed. Another issue is the fact that, as I eluded to earlier, AGCO dealers and Massey Ferguson dealers were once competitors and NOT cousins. There are many instances where MF dealers and AGCO dealers are literally neighbors. My MF dealer is right across the street from a long time Allis dealer who hasn't kept pace with the times. One goes away, the other stays and prospers. Pulling the plug on Allis dealers without due time for the adjustment would have alienated a large portion of AGCO's customer base. As it is with their slow implementation of the one brand stratagy, the former AGCO Allis customers simply walk across the street and continue to do business as usual. It's not at all UNCOMMON to find old Oliver, Minneapolis Moline, White, even Cockshutt customers at the parts counter at my favorite MF dealer.

What you PERCEIVE as poor marketing stratagy is in fact, the best way AGCO has to hold on to OLD customers, while attracting a NEW customer base. Like it or not, agree with it or not, it's working and working well. In the 2+ months of 2008, the Massey dealer I trade with has already sold more tractors than he did the entire year of 2006, and is on pace to triple his 2007 numbers. The switch is creating a stronger dealer within the company and NOT competing with its own dealers starving each other out. And we all know how important that a strong dealer is.......Agree with marketing stratagy or not. I see a leaner, tougher dealer emerging with a chance to survive and even to prosper in the coming times. Remember, we're headed into a different economic cycle that what we've been experiencing. In other words, times they are a'changin'. Old school ways might not be what it takes from here on out.

I've managed to learn a few things over the years. One is, even a mediocre plan, if followed diligently, can be made to succeed far beyond expectations and the best laid plans not followed can end in utter failure. AGCO seems to be on track with their new plan. (Which I think IS a good one) I've seen enough evidence in their future success to invest in 2 very expensive examples of their product. We'll see in a few years just how well it works. Based on the resiliency of Massey Ferguson over the years, I expect big things.

And for the record, the quality of Massey's PRODUCT seems to be on the upswing. I haven't had much opportunity to operate either of the new 583's but my son, the consumate Deere enthusiast, has had nothing but glowing reports.

Bill, this is one of my first post on this subject from the Farmtrac thread

Agco has never understood the marketing aspect of a name. They have a name in Massey Ferguson that in the US has always been pushed behind Agco-Allis and White. When they dropped White I thought they would promote MF more but then they came up with Challanger when they aquired CAT. Now they are going to drop Agco and I have a feeling they are going to promote Challanger more then Massey Ferguson here again. And to top that off they have Fendt and Valtra that they hardly promote here in the US at all. They want a global name but can't commit to any one name to do so.

You kept mis-reading the intentions of my post thinking I was upset with Agco for its products or something like that. It has been 14 years since Agco bought total control of MF, 15 years since they bought the North American rights to Massey Ferguson. Saying it is a "slow implementation" is an understatement.

What I was saying is when Agco dropped the Allis name why didn't they just drop the entire brand? It was 8 years after they had total control of MF. They dropped the entire White brand then so why not the Agco-Allis brand. In 8 years they couldn't figure out which dealers were strong and which were weak? Instead it is 14-15 years later and Agco still has 3 identical models with different paint competing with each other in the US market.

I look at it in simple terms, no matter what happens you are going to lose some customers and gain some. You find your strong dealers and give them the option to change to Massey Ferguson or they lose their dealership. I would think most would just jump to MF. The small, low volume dealers would either be absorbed by the bigger dealer or lose their dealership unless Agco saw a purpose for them. I just can't see how it takes 15 years to implement a main brand for a company. And when the company is called Agco and it has a brand called "Agco" it kind of sends mixed signals as to what is their main brand.

As I have been saying all along, Agco has great products. They just need to get things organized so farmers feel they are stable. Adding and dropping brands doesn't help with that. Agco has fell short on this. If they would have dropped Agco-Allis as a whole in 2002 I would not be having this discussion with you. Instead I have an Agco dealer who I will not buy a tractor from because I have no idea if he is going to have a Massey dealership when Agco is finally dropped. If for some reason Agco doesn't feel they deserve a MF dealership or he doesn't want the hassles of changing over again then where does that leave the farmers here that have Agco tractors? How does this help Agco's image? Do you see what I am saying? By dragging brands along like this all they do is hurt their own image as a corporation. I am not brand loyal and never have been but I will not buy a product unless I feel comfortable about getting parts and support.

I will say this, I have enjoyed this discussion with you. I have nothing else to do so I have been enjoying double checking my facts as we discuss this topic

 

[calbrown]

Hello to everyone. I have been reading posts on this site for a little while and this is my first comment on here. I am a welder/farmer. The place i weld at was purchased by the almighty Agco i think it was in 2001 but cant recall for sure at this moment. So with that being said you might ask if i am proud to work for Agco? My reply would have to be no. You might ask why? Boy is that a long story and probably shouldn't say everything on a public site. But what i do think Agco might have had the right idea at one time but they most definately have to work on their dealer network and parts availibility. Any questions you might have I may anawer in a pm. By the way I really enjoy the site.!

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Hello to everyone. I have been reading posts on this site for a little while and this is my first comment on here. I am a welder/farmer. The place i weld at was purchased by the almighty Agco i think it was in 2001 but cant recall for sure at this moment. So with that being said you might ask if i am proud to work for Agco? My reply would have to be no. You might ask why? Boy is that a long story and probably shouldn't say everything on a public site. But what i do think Agco might have had the right idea at one time but they most definately have to work on their dealer network and parts availibility. Any questions you might have I may anawer in a pm. By the way I really enjoy the site.!

Welcome to the board. Please feel free to post more often.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Robert, there is nothing amiss with my reading skills or comprehension. I fully understand what you've said. I would suggest YOU re-read your own post's to see several inconsistancies in your stated opinions

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Robert, there is nothing amiss with my reading skills or comprehension. I fully understand what you've said. I would suggest YOU re-read your own post's to see several inconsistancies in your stated opinions

Ok Bill, my reading skills must be dimisnished. I do not see any inconsistancies. If you can point them out to me I would appreciate it.

 

[Bird]

I think everything has been said, and repeated, and repeated, and repeated enough for this thread and it's time to close it.