Thin white smoke from track loader with Perkins 854E-E34TA, what to do next?

   / Thin white smoke from track loader with Perkins 854E-E34TA, what to do next? #1  

rcalhoun

New member
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Oct 21, 2019
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11
Location
Northeast Ohio
Tractor
Council Tool Pulaski
Hi,

I have a Vermeer FT-100 (same as ASV/Terex Posi-Track PT110 Forestry) with a Perkins 854E-E34TA (Tier 4 interim) engine that is putting out white smoke as it warms up. I'm about ready to send it to the shop but I wanted to make sure there isn't something obvious I'm missing.

Background: I use this machine for forestry mulching. It was working fine on the last run, when I ran it until it got low on fuel. Machine was filled up the following week (to the very top, a habit of the delivery guy) and sat about another week before I started it again. Ambient was around 20F. On start I got the (expected) condensation out of the exhaust system followed by (unexpected) white smoke, with the smoke fairly thin but worsening as the engine remained on.

It is a burning smell, not a sweet smell, so unburned fuel seems the most likely cause of the smoke. This suggests blocked airflow or bad injectors. Looking on the airflow side, I found the air filter was dirty with both dust and milkweed fluff etc. Secondary air filter had a little dust on the outside, but it was clean inside. I disassembled the Enginaire centrifugal filter to inspect a rattle to find that two of three fins were broken; it wasn't doing its job. I suspect the centrifugal filter has been broken as long as I've owned the machine, so there was probably more dust in the filter than the expected for the number of hours since filter change (about 30). There is no evidence of secondary filter failure, but I can definitely believe airflow was impeded. Last mulching run was as saturated, frozen ground was thawing, so water drops getting sucked into the air filter and freezing is also not impossible.

Two weeks ago I replace the Enginaire centrifugal filter, the main air filter, and the secondary air filter, then started it. Ambient temp was about 60 F, so there was no condensation. Initially there was no white smoke, but as the engine warmed up I started to see smoke again. It is thinner than when I started at 20F, and it is not coolant-in-the-engine terrible, but it's not good. Here's a video:


I tried starting it one other time a few days later, just to see if this some temporary glut of fuel in the cylinders from when the airflow was poor that would resolve itself. Same result: thin smoke that gets thicker as the engine warms up.

Here are the possibilities I've considered:

Bad fuel: seems like a possibility because the problem started with the refueling. This is my number one candidate. But I buy (ULSD offroad) fuel from a reputable supplier and all fuel is ULSD so I don't see how I could have received a bad or incorrect product. Should I send a sample out for analysis?

Old/low oil: I about 3 mm above the "min" line with engine cold. It does bother me that the oil level has dropped, since it had held consistently at the max line for quite some time before that. Oil leaking into the combustion chamber? (Shudder.) I suppose I could send oil out for analysis with the fuel.

Clogged injectors: seems possible. Also seems pricey; I'd better address whether fuel quality issue first. (Related question: do any of the fuel-injector-cleaning snake oils sold at the local auto parts store actually work?)

Temporary excess of fuel due to overfilling: i.e. something that will go away after I've used a few quarts. A much as I'd like to believe this, I don't see how fuel overfilling could lead to problems in on a common-rail engine.

"Something bad": coolant in the engine, engine oil in the engine, black walnuts in the engine etc.

I've kind of talked myself into sending fuel and engine oil samples out for analysis just to bring a few facts into the situation; any other suggestions?

Thank you,

-Rob
 
   / Thin white smoke from track loader with Perkins 854E-E34TA, what to do next? #2  
Did you look for signs of oil in the coolant (radiator)?
I believe while mulching, a daily air cleaner blow out and dust bowl cleaning is a good practice along with blowing out the radiator "stack". (oil and a/c )
 
   / Thin white smoke from track loader with Perkins 854E-E34TA, what to do next? #3  
Waste gate stuck? failed hump hose/coupler on the after cooler? how is it on power. I am not real familiar that engine may or may not have a waste gate. You may not be producing the boost, hence the power question. I am thinking that engine runs nozzles and they can fail causing unburned fuel. How many hours are on it? nozzles typically aren't hard to remove and have tested. Crack individual lines while it is running, see it the smoke changes goes away?
My gut is telling me it is a nozzle.
 
   / Thin white smoke from track loader with Perkins 854E-E34TA, what to do next? #4  
In all trouble shooting it is human nature to automatically go directly to the worst possible things than can cause the issue and I sense that is what you are doing. The logical thing is to think about what is different from the last time you ran the machine. Based on your report it is the fuel, so my first action would be to pump (or drain) the fuel out and re-fill the tank with fresh fuel and change (or at least dump) the fuel filter(s) Getting bad fuel is not unheard of and it sounds like that is the case here. My bet is some type of oil was mixed with the fuel giving you a two-stroke type smell.
 
   / Thin white smoke from track loader with Perkins 854E-E34TA, what to do next?
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Thank you for the advice.

Machine is a 2015, bought at 620 hrs. It had broken overpressure valve that led to overheating problems on arrival (now I know why people sell low-hour machines :-/), so that valve, oil filter, engine oil, hydraulic oil, hydraulic oil filter, water separator, fuel filter all changed out in the first 10 hours. Running well for the last 50. I keep the radiator as clean as I can, since it had that overheating issue.

Didn't turn it on today but no obvious signs of engine oil in the coolant. It does occur to me that I ran the fuel level lower than I ever have before, as it was running well and I was close enough to the road to get it refueled. Maybe I dislodged some junky stuff from the bottom of the tank. We'll see.

radiator.jpg


Truckdiagnostic's question about whether this engine has a wastegate reminded me that I have a repair manual for it, so thanks for making me look up what a wastegate is! (Yes, it does have one.) The manual's troubleshooting section for "white smoke" is below; it does list bad fuel as something to check.

It says check for fault codes first. The loader's computer doesn't show any fault codes, but with a little work I can check the engine codes directly. So I will send fluids out for analysis and meanwhile work on interfacing a computer to the CAN bus. (Something I'd always intended to do but never got around to.) May take me a couple of weeks. It's too wet right now to mulch without making a mess, anyway.

These machines are pretty fun when they are working. This property was taken over by smooth buckthorn after the bigger trees were logged off and one couldn't walk through it when I bought it. The dead/dying ash trees (from emerald ash borer) put up some resistance so I often just leave them standing but the buckthorn is a tall, spindly, fast-growing shrub that gets obliterated when the mulcher hit it. Photo from the last useful run (notice lack of smoke!) is below.

Thanks for the help, all!

-Rob

shredding.jpg


From the Perkins 854E/854F repair manual:

Exhaust Has Excessive White Smoke
Note: Some white smoke may be present during cold start-up conditions and during acceleration after a prolonged period at low idle. If the white smoke persists, there may be a fault.
Probable Causes

  • Diagnostic codes
  • ECM Flash file
  • Starting aids
  • Coolant temperature
  • Cooling system
  • Fuel quality
  • Valve lash
  • Low compression (cylinder pressure)
  • Individual malfunctioning cylinder
Note: The procedures have been listed in order of probability. Complete the procedures in order.

1647207238494.png
 
   / Thin white smoke from track loader with Perkins 854E-E34TA, what to do next? #6  
No matter what you look for the only logical way to start eliminating issues is to change the fuel supply first. If that doesn't do it than move on to other possible solutions. If not you are just guessing and guesses lead to messes.
 
   / Thin white smoke from track loader with Perkins 854E-E34TA, what to do next? #7  
No matter what you look for the only logical way to start eliminating issues is to change the fuel supply first. If that doesn't do it than move on to other possible solutions. If not you are just guessing and guesses lead to messes.
What he said first I'm bad. With no check engine lights on an electronic engine that means that the engine ecm thinks everything is ok. Also changes trouble shooting. White smoke after starting could mean the engine thinks it is cold mode when it is not or the engine is not getting warm enough to get out of cold mode. In cold mode the ecm adjusts ignition timing, (adjusting timing creates the white smoke.)

Comparing what the ecm is seeing to actual engine temp becomes the challenge. You could start by shooting the thermostat housing and upper and lower radiator housing with an ir thermometer making sure the engine is coming up to temp. comparing that to the dash gauge.

I would think with bad fuel it would be running worse than it is......
 
   / Thin white smoke from track loader with Perkins 854E-E34TA, what to do next? #8  
I would think with bad fuel it would be running worse than it is......
Normally I'd agree but be logical; the only thing that changed is the fuel. I don't believe in coincidences. If nothing else put a small tank of fuel on it and run a temporary hose to the filter.
 
   / Thin white smoke from track loader with Perkins 854E-E34TA, what to do next? #9  
Normally I'd agree but be logical; the only thing that changed is the fuel. I don't believe in coincidences. If nothing else put a small tank of fuel on it and run a temporary hose to the filter.
agree
 
   / Thin white smoke from track loader with Perkins 854E-E34TA, what to do next?
  • Thread Starter
#10  
Sorry for the long delay in posting an update.

At the beginning of April, I drained a gallon of fuel, cleaned out the water separator & replaced the fuel filter, bought 5 gal of fresh road diesel and ran it off of that. It still smokes, time to call the professionals.

CAT used to own Perkins, so I called them; was told "sure, bring it in", but when it got there, the guy I spoke with was on vacation and they didn't want it. Called local Vermeer dealer, they said they can't fix engine issues and suggested a Perkins dealer. Vermeer recently sold this line and associated support for it to Fecon, so I hunted around for an independent shop that is a Fecon distributor. They are game to work on it, so that's where it is now. Tech will take a look on Monday.

loaderb.jpg
 
 
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