advice on welding rods

[Gary Fowler]

I worked as a pipe welder for many years and then quality control in heavy construction so I will give you my thoughts. Looks like you have already started with the welding. Since you have a portable DC machine, I would use the 1/8" E 6010 which is a DC rod for tacking and root pass. Clean the slag and follow up with 3/32" E7018 DC rod for fill and cap pass. Make the fillet weld pass have a throat dimension at least the thickness of the material you are welding and always weld both sides with a seal weld. DONT leave any holes for water to enter and start corrosion from the inside. E7018 is also more corrosion resistant than the 60xx rods and 10,000 PSI stronger so those are good for the filler and cap passes. They also weld really well with DC in all positions. You need to run your machine a bit higher amps when welding overhead (maybe 10 amps) which helps keep the slag at bay. 7018 require a short arc length compared to the 6010 so hold the rod as close to the metal as possible without it sticking. They dont weld so good with any type of gap so use the 6010 to run a root pass first. You shouldnt need anything larger than 3/32" 7018 for the steel that you are using. They may be a little slower than using a larger rod, but you can make much better welds with smaller rod if you are out of practice. 1/8" 6010 is all you need for that. I wouldnt go any larger nor smaller.
Good luck on your project. I was going to suggest that you didnt need 4 axels but I see you already plan to remove one and close the gap between the others so that should make it easier to turn.

 

[laurencen]

here is where I am thus far, I will get some 6011 tomorrow

 

[eastexan]

I sure hope you're planning on welding in some good solid patches over those high stress areas.
Maybe adding some grade 5 or 8 bolts to it as well. :thumbsup:

 

[jake98]

Quite a project, good luck!

 

[JB4310]

I sure hope you're planning on welding in some good solid patches over those high stress areas.
Maybe adding some grade 5 or 8 bolts to it as well. :thumbsup:

That's exactly what I was thinking/ would do. Overlapping plate each side of those butted joints. That is a nice big main frame to work with.

JB

 

[gwdixon]

That's exactly what I was thinking/ would do. Overlapping plate each side of those butted joints. That is a nice big main frame to work with.

JB

I am just a farm welder but have to agree about "fish plating" all of the butt joints. There is going to be a tremendous amount of stress on the entire trailer with all that weight, especially in turns. Even a once a year trip to the lake will be a disaster if one of the welds fail.

My original thought when the post was first put up was that "if you have to ask what rod you probably shouldn't be doing it". Not meant as an insult just as a precaution. Maybe I've been reading Welding Web too much.

Speaking of that, try posting the project over on Welding Web and see what they say.

 

[drizler]

Weld Talk Message Board and Online Forum - Hobart Welders

Here is a site I have belonged to for many years and guarantee will be of great help to you . Good mix of half / assed welders like us and retired industry pros so if you start to do something stupid they will let you know beforehand. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I got very respectful of such stuff 2 years back when I had a home shop welded trailer hitch shear right off on me and drop a trailer. No drama in the accident, pissed off the horse I was towing though. Beautifully made 20 year old hitch snapped right off. Looking at it the thing was welded perfectly extremely deep penetration and no sign of rust or cracking though there surely must have been a bit somewhere. Made me a believer in buying my hitches after that and I now view even perfect welds with a bit of suspicion.

 

[crash325]

Another :2cents:

Get that heavy Azzed boat off the trailer and out of the way or nothing will go right. And you may screw up the boat.

 

[laurencen]

Thanks for the comments, I do lots of mig welding but I know the welds look good but the penetration is the pits, I have got a couple boxes of 6011s today, played a bit vertical welding on scrap and figure its not that bad.

Now regards the fish plates, I have several plates in 3/16 steel sheared to put on the flange where it is butt welded, also got several pieces to weld in place over axles like the original see the front side.

also got some lazer cut gusset plates to weld on the top and bottom flange and will be adding several braces between the rails to replace the light angle they used originally.

Today also cut out the front axle and moved the outer 2 closer to the middle one, this will give a better turning action, tomorrow will see what weight is on the hitch, want around 750 pounds, this should be fine.

Plan on pulling with my Ford 350,,,, well I have a Kenworth T600 which should do the trick.

Once I have everything prety solid I will rent a crane and lift boat off to complete welding and add the 2x10 supports for the underside, not sure what to use on the front for the hull, not to add a winch because the weight of the boat will not easily pull with a winch more to stop it coming forward during a hard brake action.

 

[coxey2]

I sure hope you're planning on welding in some good solid patches over those high stress areas.
Maybe adding some grade 5 or 8 bolts to it as well. :thumbsup:

AWS D1.1 Code for Structural Steel. I am a CWI. Back gouge, CJP, E7018 or
E71T. Then do complete Visual exam. Just my two cents...

 

[Brad_Blazer]

the boat will float in 30 inches of water and the trailer is that again, mosy likely it will be slung on a gantry at least here, there is no way I could back down a launch and get that depth of water without swamping the rear of the truck.

Shucks, you should have just left the long front in place!

 

[laurencen]

thanks Brad, maybe what I cut of the back I should have added to the front,

 

[tb525]

Does Saskatchewan have any width restrictions for trailers & loads? That's a big boat, are you going to be able to tow it without having to get a wide load permit?

 

[laurencen]

There are restrictions but the width and height are within these, regarding weight my one ton could not pull it legally fortunatly I have a tractor unit that easily handles this load

 

[laurencen]

well, the Miller Bobcat 250 is a awsome machine, I have owned it for 3 years and finally used it as a welder, it performs well, tacked the trailer together with 7014s, all I had, today purchased some 1/8 and 5/32 6011s, welded horizontal, vertical and overhead and must say after a couple hours it is getting better, well better looking, vertical was problematic due to a gap over 3/16 in places but not fast it welded up fine, got some fish plates left on the splices and should be good to go.

After welding I put it down on the axles, figure I had about 1000 pounds on the front so back in the air and cut off spring hangers, change from slotted rear hangers to plates, will be welding back on tomorrow in a new location, should have 300 pounds when finished, Il put some pictures up tomorrow

 

[Shield Arc]

vertical was problematic due to a gap over 3/16 in places

When you get into that situation, try running a "J" motion. If you can, run the long side of the "J" on the thicker side. This "J" method may help you with your vertical up welds as well.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I used to be a certified pressure vessel welder. You have DC capability with your Bobcat so use it. 6010 on reverse polarity is a good all around rod for all posistions. You can do your last pass like we did for appearance using 60 or 7015 which is a low hydrogen rod. As this is a road running trailer with a heavy load you are assuming a lot of liability doing an amuture job. That much stress on a poor weld will have the boat in someones windshield. I would practice a lot before working on the trailer. You want a good fit with proper gap to assure full penetration welds w/o flaws. Weld both sides where you can. Piling weld material on top of the joint provides zero strength when stress is applied. Legimate commercial shops would never attemt this w/o using a certified structural welder. DOT regs on this are very strict hence the liability issue. I am 75 but can still lay down a certifieable weld but it took me a whole year of practice at the shop on my own time to pass the certification test.

Your welding supply house can give you a lot of advice, use it. Go to your local hardware store and pick up a Glover Pocket Reference book. It has a world of info for a low price. I keep mine handy in my farm shop.There is a section on welding rods. Also Miller's Operating manual for your welder is fantastic reference material. If you do have it go to their web site and download it free.

 

[laurencen]

thanks for the information, as it happens Miller are having a trade event at our locak Acklands today, they have all the line of welders with demonstrations, they also offer limited training on customers own machines, I have a slot at 2 today, bet this will be usefull time well spent

 

[Ruark]

I have seen few topics where you will get as wide a variety of opinions as that of welding techniques and materials. It's like asking what's the best brand of tractor...

That being said, if you're AC only, I would go with 6011 for "dirty, rough" work, and 7014 for anything else. 7018AC is out there, but it can be a royal PITA to weld with if you don't have everything just right and have practiced with it until you're blue in the face. Plus, if you don't keep it in a rod oven it can get subsurface moisture inclusions, which defeats the whole purpose of a low-hydrogen rod in the first place.

6011 is good for rusty or painted metal, and where appearance isn't that important. It penetrates like the dickens, and makes a bunch of spatter.

7014 is extremely easy and smooth to use, lays a good bead, and is plenty strong for most purposes. I've seen a lot of people repairing heavy equipment with it. It's my standard go-to rod here on the ranch.

 

[jake98]

There are restrictions but the width and height are within these, regarding weight my one ton could not pull it legally fortunatly I have a tractor unit that easily handles this load

That there's the definition of quality time: boats, tractors, and welding. What do you do for fun?? :laughing: