Buying Advice Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters")

   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters") #41  
A friend bought a remote controlled mower called an Evatech Goat 22T. Interesting machine, and it does the job with zero pucker factor.
EVATECH OFFICIAL WEBSITE

I don't know what degree the slope is at his place, but it is difficult to walk on it. I don't even try. The 22T Goat mows it easily and pretty quickly.
rScotty
 
   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters") #42  
That has to be one of the weirdest web sites I have seen in a long time.

I agree the machine is interesting. For under $10k I would buy one if I knew it worked and would be supported, or supportable. But the web site impression is that the company is run by a mad scientist type who like to tinker. Hmm what would happen if I needed parts for my EVA mower while he was off tinkering with his electric car?
 
   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters")
  • Thread Starter
#43  
I did a bit of investigating of Evatech's products when I was researching the viability of RC mowers. As Plowhog alludes to their website is somewhat lacking. When I went looking elsewhere on the web for information about Evatech the search returns made me uncomfortable about the company.

A few months ago I had an email conversation with one of Evatech's sales engineers to get some more technical info, since they don't put important data like engine size on their website. He wrote that the Goat 22T uses a B&S Professional Series 875 engine. I know that lots of people use splash lubricated engines like this one on slopes without damaging them from oil starvation, but designing a slope mower that doesn't use a pressurized lube system seems like a bad choice. The torque curve on this engine converts to 6 hp. That's comparable to the push mower that I brought from the city, which did fine on my lawn there, but is challenged on the length of grass that I'm cutting here. Considering that the Goat's engine is also propelling the machine means that there'd be even less power for the blade. The 22 inch cutting width is less than on the machine I use now, so it would be tedious to operate this machine on a large area. I've considered buying a smaller RC mower like this for the steep slopes and something to ride on for the less steep ground as an option, but I'm still hopeful for a single tool solution.

Does Evatech have a machine big enough to use as one solution for all my mowing? Well, they have the TREX mower, which has a 44 inch cutting width and 20 hp pressure lubricated engine (and looks surprisingly like the RC mower that I linked to in my original post in this thread). This looks like it would cut on all my terrain and save me time, since the cutting width is about twice what I use now. But for US$25,000 I could pretty much buy any of the other safe ride-on solutions that I've been looking at. I suppose that once the big manufacturers move into this market that prices will drop, but for now...
 
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   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters") #44  
While I'm not an "old school" kinda guy - I just would be very uncertain about remote control equipment on uncertain terrain and distance between operator and conditions right in front of the mower. Technology is a wonderful thing but with steep slopes - a unit in those prices could be an expensive loss - if operator controls failed or jammed and it started a down hill direction from misguided signals.

Shucks we don't even have a Rhumba for the carpets yet :)
 
   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters")
  • Thread Starter
#45  
While I'm not an "old school" kinda guy - I just would be very uncertain about remote control equipment on uncertain terrain and distance between operator and conditions right in front of the mower. Technology is a wonderful thing but with steep slopes - a unit in those prices could be an expensive loss - if operator controls failed or jammed and it started a down hill direction from misguided signals.

Shucks we don't even have a Rhumba for the carpets yet :)

You make a valid point, AxleHub. Dust, heat, vibration and water are all things to avoid with electronics, so I am also concerned about their longevity in a mower. There are ways to "harden" electronics against those threats, but I'm guessing that that the inexpensive RC mower manufacturers aren't doing that, yet.

I believe that sometime in the not-to-distant future we'll have autonomous vehicles that will cruise around and do whatever mowing that we define without the need to walk behind and control them (which isn't really saving any effort over driving the thing - it just makes it safer). I want to just set the machine going and watch it do the mowing while I have a coffee on my balcony! That isn't the situation right now, which is why a ride-on mower will be the solution for me (probably).

Chris
 
   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters") #46  
That has to be one of the weirdest web sites I have seen in a long time.

I agree the machine is interesting. For under $10k I would buy one if I knew it worked and would be supported, or supportable. But the web site impression is that the company is run by a mad scientist type who like to tinker. Hmm what would happen if I needed parts for my EVA mower while he was off tinkering with his electric car?

I agree. It's clearly a group of tinkers doing a prototype production run. It is way clever, and it dows work remarkably well. BTW, I was concerned about range, but the radio control range seems to be greater than needed. I had to use binoculars to see where he had cut the day before from his armchair on the front porch. But it is obvious that EvaTech pays scant homage to marketing. The sheet metal is clearly laser-cut and machine bent, but after that concession to mass production almost every component is bolted into place. As I looked it over I was struck by the total absence of welded or cast components. Everything is well thought out and seems good quality - even very good - but it is a bolt-together assembly that has clearly traded ease of maintenance and modification for marketing sales appeal. On the plus side, that modular concept makes repair and upgrades easy.

On the negative side, even though they've sold quite a few over the last few years, the future of what they are building is completely uncertain....That is in complete contrast to well-known companies I've purchased from in the last few years. Purchases like the Ford PU with the 7.3 diesel (no longer produced), or my Kubota M59 TLB (no longer produced), or my Yanmar tractor (sold out to JD), or my LandCruiser (no longer produced), my Milwaukee Power tool set (no longer produced or parts or serviced) or even my Snap-On tools whose lifetime warranty has expired into laughter.

So the Goat 22T is the sort of thing that appeals more to do-i-yourself guys, tinkerers, and fixits. The sort of guys who value quality sub-assembly over production smooth finish. And who think that the potential for personal contact with the design team is a big plus. And who fully expect that future repairs are likely to involve the owner.

That would describe my buddy who bought one. He is an R&D type and enjoys that kind of toy. Come to think of it, that description probably fits quite a few guys on this forum. Myself included........
enjoy! rScotty
 
   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters")
  • Thread Starter
#48  
Chris, There is what looks to be a real good deal on Ebay right now

DEWEZE ATM 72 Hill & Slope mower all terrain

Ken

Thanks for the "heads-up", Ken.

I had looked at the new equipment sold by Harper (Deweze) and discounted them because the least expensive was still really expensive (more than a Ventrac plus mowing deck). This smaller machine doesn't appear on their website now, so it must no longer be in production. It's an interesting option. I'm not sure how well it would work as a mower on flatter areas and on high grass, but a low priced (used) dedicated slope mower plus a less expensive "non-slope" mower for the lesser sloped areas might be a viable solution.

BTW - I was reading the operator's manuals on the Harper website to learn a bit more about these units and I think that the Ebay vendor has made an error on the model number. The Ebay item appears to be a smaller (and presumably less expensive) model than the advertised ATM 72. I think that it's an ATM 725 or ATM 70C.
 
   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters") #49  
You could always try it first and by a second machine only if necessary.
 
   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters") #50  
I found this remote controlled mower family which looks rugged. Some will mow up to 50 degree slopes. Kinda cool, but I think it would take a lot of getting used to running it, but it looks like it would be fun.....217 Remote Mowers, LLC. Slope Mowers

381dbf_8a848d1f4ff446589e314d99c0ecfd85.jpg
 
   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters")
  • Thread Starter
#51  
Someone with similar requirements reading this thread in the future might be interested in what I chose for a solution. It'a bit over a year since I asked for advice for mowing on sloped, rough (not lawn smooth) terrain.

The North American distributor for the German AS-Motor AS-940 Sherpa ride-on mower never did bring a unit into Vancouver for a demo last summer as they stated they would do. They also could not answer some basic questions such as how to get warranty repairs done if there were no dealers or service centres in Canada, where I live now. Even though this mower seemed like a good technical solution and was a fraction of the cost of the other equipment that I was evaluating, it didn't seem practical. As I wrote in a message to AS-Motor in Germany, North American buyers want to know that there will be someone to support and service equipment that they purchase from overseas. The contact address for AS-Motor in the USA is a residential apartment building in the middle of a golf course in West Palm Beach, Florida, so that doesn't give the impression of a service/support center with a warehouse full of parts and with guys with wrenches in their hands who can help to solve a problem. There was also some doubt about how steep a slope this machine could handle. One of the marketing videos from the manufacturer that I referenced earlier showed an AS-940 Sherpa going up and down an (estimated) 40 degree slope, but the operating manual doesn't specifically state what slope steepness the machine can safely mow in those directions. That's odd, because they do state that is can do 23 degrees sideways, so I'd estimate that it can safely handle 30 degrees mowing straight up or down.

I was fortunate to be in a position to be able to purchase my second choice of mowing solution, the Ventrac 4500 with dual wheels and tough cut mower (which the manufacturer, Venture Products, says can mow 30 degrees up/down and sideways). I made that purchase this spring. With its 68 inch cutting width it has cut my mowing time to about a third of what it took me previously. The physical effort is miniscule compared to wrestling that 300 lb walk-behind DR brush cutter around. Onlookers are surprised when they see the machine mowing up and down the (up to) 30 degree slopes on our property. I have tried mowing across the 30 degree slope as a test, just because the manufacturer says that it can do this. The tractor was stable on the slope, but I wasn't stable in the seat. Some sort of 5-point racing harness would be useful to take advantage of the machine's full capabilities! The quality of everything that I've looked at on this well engineered machine is fantastic and the support from the manufacturer is excellent. I think that if I take care of it that I'll have few problems with this absolutely top notch piece of equipment. It's a pleasure to own and operate.

It's probably evident from my earlier posts that I research things, so I knew that while Venture Products says the Ventrac 4500P can handle 30 degree slopes, the engine manufacturer (Kawasaki) shows in their operating manual (provided with the Ventrac but also available online), that the safe operating limit is 25 degrees. I knew about this discrepancy before I made my purchase, but I reasoned that on my property the tractor wouldn't be at 30 degrees for more than 30 seconds so I was fairly confident that engine lubrication wouldn't be an issue regardless of what Kawasaki wrote. When I queried Venture Products about the discrepancy, they responded with:

"Ventrac IS certified for 30 degree slope operation in the 4500P. In fact, part of our certification process includes sending a unit to Kawasaki for testing to ensure our tractor (with their engine) meets the 30 degree number that we claim. It is my understanding that the reason the Kawasaki engine manual only lists 25 degrees is simply because Kawasaki has not yet gotten around to updating their manual. It's possible that other non-Ventrac machines that utilize that engine weren't safe to be operated above 25 degrees before. But then the Ventrac came along and changed that, requiring a manual change that they just haven't yet made."

...And I responded in part with this:

"If I was a contractor and wanted to be sure that I could mow all day long at a 30 degree slope, though, I'd want more of an assurance that the engine could handle this. Since Kawasaki has tested the 4500P, they would have given Ventrac some documentation that says something along the lines of "We warrant that our FD851D engine, when operated in the Ventrac 4500P tractor can run continuously at slopes of an angle of 30 degrees.". It would be beneficial for that documentation to be available to people questioning the contradiction in the two manuals. Without it, prudent potential buyers will assume that 25 degrees is the safe limit to not damage the engine, and that may cause some people to not buy the 4500P."

Shortly after I made my purchase, the government of the USA imposed tariffs on steel imported from Canada. As background, in 2017 Canada exported to the USA 5.8-6.0 million metric tons (mmt) of steel and imported 4.8 mmt of steel from the USA, plus a whole bunch of manufactured products that use steel, like Ventrac tractors and mowers. In response the Canadian government has imposed tariffs on a wide range of goods coming into Canada from the United States. In addition to the 4.8 mmt of products directly produced by steel mills, the tariffs apply to a range of manufactured goods including one tariff targeted at "Mowers for lawns, parks or sports-grounds: Powered, with the cutting device rotating in a horizontal plane". I'm an engineer, not a lawyer, but I'll guess that this tariff will apply to all of the Ventrac mowers, if not the Ventrac tractor itself. So the already expensive Ventrac products will get more costly, in Canada (if this tariff applies) and in the USA and anywhere that Venture Products exports to, because steel prices in the USA have increased since the tariff imposition. This steel tariff was ostensibly targeted at Chinese overproduction (China accounts for over half of world steel production but only 2% of steel imports to the USA). Instead it is really hitting the country allies of the USA, American consumers (the prices for cars and trucks and washing machines and everything else made of steel will all likely increase) and American workers at manufacturing companies that produce products using steel.
 
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   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters") #52  
Chris - thanks for the follow-up. I am glad you are happy with your purchase.

I love it when somebody researches something and then documents it for everybody else.
 
   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters") #53  
You made an excellent choice for your needs. :thumbsup:
 
   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters") #54  
Pleased to hear you were eventually able to buy something that should keep you safe, as well as making life at lot easier Chris.

Everyone here on TBN loves pictures (hint), though not suggesting you stop on a 30 degree sloop to climb out to take some :)


Can I ask you a question I've always been curious about with dual wheel mowers - how do you go about checking tire pressure on your inner wheels ?
 
   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters") #55  
A friend bought a remote controlled mower called an Evatech Goat 22T. Interesting machine, and it does the job with zero pucker factor.
EVATECH OFFICIAL WEBSITE

I don't know what degree the slope is at his place, but it is difficult to walk on it. I don't even try. The 22T Goat mows it easily and pretty quickly.
rScotty

An update on my Evatech Goat 22T. I have a VERY steep back yard that I used to cut with a string trimmer. It was HARD WORK!
The incline varies from 25 degrees to an honest 35 degrees (most is 30-35 degrees). It's VERY steep....in no way walkable. So I ordered a Goat 22T (22" with rubber tracks and a splash lubed B&S 875 engine). It easily does the job in an hour. Weed-eating took 2 two-hour sessions and many yellow jacket and snake encounters.

The engine is fine without pressurized lubrication, especially if the carburetor is on the uphill side(otherwise it will smoke as oil gets in the carb). This is not an issue as the Goat 22T the mower cuts easily frontward or backwards. There was a bit of a learning curve with the remote control. I blew a few protective fuses at first because I was too heavy-handed with the remote. Now, no fuses blow. I have had no issues in three years of mowing heavy (overgrown) grass on a 35 degree slope. I only mow about once a month, so it gets a bit high.

The tracks show zero wear, the engine is strong. I just change the oil yearly. Electric start is great. I'm really glad that I bought it, even though it was expensive.....but cheap compared to any other 35 degree mower!
 
   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters") #56  
I was fortunate to be in a position to be able to purchase my second choice of mowing solution, the Ventrac 4500 with dual wheels and tough cut mower (which the manufacturer, Venture Products, says can mow 30 degrees up/down and sideways). I made that purchase this spring. With its 68 inch cutting width it has cut my mowing time to about a third of what it took me previously. The physical effort is miniscule compared to wrestling that 300 lb walk-behind DR brush cutter around. Onlookers are surprised when they see the machine mowing up and down the (up to) 30 degree slopes on our property. I have tried mowing across the 30 degree slope as a test, just because the manufacturer says that it can do this. The tractor was stable on the slope, but I wasn't stable in the seat. Some sort of 5-point racing harness would be useful to take advantage of the machine's full capabilities! The quality of everything that I've looked at on this well engineered machine is fantastic and the support from the manufacturer is excellent. I think that if I take care of it that I'll have few problems with this absolutely top notch piece of

Hi Chris,
I appreciate all of the detail you put into your posts. I have similar needs for a machine and am also in Canada and I just read through this thread and learned a lot. I'd like to get the Ventrac also, but I don't think I can afford it. I'm trying to find a used one near me.
 
   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters") #57  
Hello jd2130,

Don't hesitate to call the Ventrac dealer network in New York, Ohio and New England as well when looking for a used unit.

I wish that ventrac sold a single stage snow thrower with a 13 inch snow blower rotor instead of a two stage snow blower.

The Ventrac dealer in Elmira, Ontario fabricated a mounting frame for a Riest single stage sidewalk snowthrower for a contractor in Elmire Ontario that has 3 of these ventrac units for contract snow removal work in Elimira, Ontario.

The Rieset people stopped making snow removal equipment and sold their snow blower lines to MK Martin.
They are not building custom width single stage units nor are they building the single stage units that can be converted to hydraulic drive by simply remove the three point hitch frame part and adding the hydraulic motor and SSQA plate to use it on skid steer loaders or tractor loaders with an SSQA mounting plate and a hydraulic power pack with 35 gallons per minute capacity to power the hydraulic drive snow thrower.

They also stopped using the thirteen inch snow blower rotor which was a huge mistake as the tractor horsepower they recommend will not have enough high end torque for the smaller snow throwers now. NOR will they custom build a snow thrower with a 13 inch snow blower rotor of any width.
 
   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters") #58  
Thank you Leonz.
I'll try calling them. I'm going to first check out some of the dealers close to me. I'm only planning to use it for brush cutting. I have a big farm tractor (a John Deere 2130) which will make quick work of snow removal.
 
   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters")
  • Thread Starter
#59  
Hi Chris,
I appreciate all of the detail you put into your posts. I have similar needs for a machine and am also in Canada and I just read through this thread and learned a lot. I'd like to get the Ventrac also, but I don't think I can afford it. I'm trying to find a used one near me.

Hi Mikey,

I'm glad that post has helped you with your decision. Good luck with the purchase. The exchange rate is not going to be your friend, unfortunately.

Chris
 
   / Advice on mowing sloped, rough terrain ("ride on brushcutters") #60  
Hi Chris,

Thanks for this thread. I am looking at a similar situation in 2023. I have 10 acres on a lake in Maine that we recently purchased. Still not many options in the United States. The Europeans/GB have more options. Steiner was purchased by Bobcat, and there is a rumor of a Bobcat-branded Steiner. AS-Motor was purchased by Ariens, but they do not appear to be bringing anything to the US. Two British companies ( Countax and Westwood) owned by Ariens are interesting but are only European-based. Kubota and John Deere have front-mount mower options, but they are expensive.

I am unsure of what solution I will end up with. Most options are expensive, and dealer support in Maine is sparse.
 

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