Advice on 25 hp tractor purchase

[Doughknob]

I have a Bobcat 1025. As a first year model unit with a Kioti core and Bobcat assembled, it's got some obvious flaws (e.g. key bent too easily and needed a new design, removing the backhoe is incredibly difficult without removing the tires, replacing the tires on the hub is not user friendly). But it works. The dealer used my tractor as a rental for a year (120 hours), got a great financing deal from Bobcat to buy a new one and sold the rental to me cheap. If I used it more, serviced it more often, swapped out implements more, etc. the "little nits" might be more of a problem. It's my guess that when Bobcat comes out with "their" tractor design in a couple years it will be a vastly improved product.

I'm using the backhoe to dig stumps while I'm waiting for my stump grinder.

My key has Not bent. I have had my rear wheels off and on all by myself, and no harder than any other tractor. I have not found any nits yet that interfere with daily use.

I did, however, find some small design flaws, but i was able to correct all 3 of them myself. Of course my corrections look like DIY things but they work.

 

[DieselBound]

I have removed about 90 stumps since buying my TLB. I did not "work out" any stumps with the loader, and can't imagine doing so. Mostly I used my backhoe and chainsaw. You can deform a bucket very easily using it for unintended applications - like working tree stumps.

Unless it's a B7800! I've jack-knifed stumps out with this tractor: bouncing the rear of the tractor! Absolutely not advocating it, but when I was less "wise" about things and I had work to do I did that: and through all that abuse the tractor held up, perhaps, like no other. Not a chance in a very warm place that I'd even think of doing anything similar with my Kioti. I now only use excavators to remove stumps.

 

[paulfun9]

I wa

I have a Bobcat 1025. As a first year model unit with a Kioti core and Bobcat assembled, it's got some obvious flaws (e.g. key bent too easily and needed a new design, removing the backhoe is incredibly difficult without removing the tires, replacing the tires on the hub is not user friendly). But it works. The dealer used my tractor as a rental for a year (120 hours), got a great financing deal from Bobcat to buy a new one and sold the rental to me cheap. If I used it more, serviced it more often, swapped out implements more, etc. the "little nits" might be more of a problem. It's my guess that when Bobcat comes out with "their" tractor design in a couple years it will be a vastly improved product.

I'm using the backhoe to dig stumps while I'm waiting for my stump grinder

I was curious and just watched a video of someone removing and re installing a backhoe on a 1025. He didn’t seem to have any issues and definately had no need to remove the tires. Makes me wonder exactly what issues your having and why?

 

[Williy]

Maybe his next trick will be to remove the
steering wheel to adjust the seat????????????

willy

 

[rademamj1]

I surely hope the OP decides to get a slightly larger tractor for all the work he has indicated. Understanding that a 25Hp subcompact is just not suitable for using a medium duty rotary cutter. Either upgrade to a larger tractor, or find a way to live with the 48" rotary cutters typically used with 25hp tractors.

 

[axeman79]

Hello all. I'm in the market for a 25 hp compact. I have done extensive comparisons and have settled on Kioti or Branson. I chose these 2 for the amount of tractor I would get for my $. Each tractor is the heaviest in its class and has the best lifting capacities. I have heard the "buy the dealer, not the tractor" phrase already and am comfortable with both dealerships, which are within an hour of me and both service in house. I want to go Hydro for this purchase. This tractor will be used for FEL work (small tree clearing), minor driveway grading and brush hogging. I was quoted the below prices:

Kioti:
CK2610 Hydro
$18,300 tractor + FEL
Fluid and delivery included

Branson:
2515h
$19,900 tractor + FEL
nothing else included

I have been on the Branson and it's ok, nothing special. I have yet to sit on a Kioti. Neither dealer has these tractors in stock, so I would likely have to wait either way. My question for those which have experience with either of these models......which would you spend your money on?

Before buying any tractor, do a few simple calculations based on what you will run with it and how much time each task should take. For instance, say you have to mow a ten acre field. You size the cutter based on how long you want that task to take. An 6' cutter may cut 2.25 acres per hour but a 4' only 1.75 acres. If the 4' is what you go with, then determine how much PTO HP you need to operate it. If the dealer says 20 PTO HP and you have hilly ground, it will take 30 PTO HP. determine if you need a Box Blade, Plow, Post Hole Digger and size them. Once you know the minimum and maximum requirements, size the tractor to accomplish that. One important note, whatever tractor you buy, it will be under powered, all the time, so buy a little bit bigger than needed. I have hilly pastures and my neighbors can barely survive bailing hay with 75 HP machines, but my 100 HP JD does everything I ask it do with plenty to spare. Last thing, consider standardized equipment. If you get Cat I equipment, it will have a wide range of tractors that will operate it, if you get compact stuff, you will always need a compact and nothing bigger.

 

[tjm1982]

Thank you all for your advice and opinions, I appreciate everyone’s stance on this. Based upon my current and future plans with the tractor and implements, I will be opting for a larger tractor.

 

[lacritz]

Have KIOTI 25 HT. Front loader and backhoe. 200 hours. 4 years. fuse to the starter soloniod comes loose and the enginge shutsdown! Press the fuse back in the fuse holder and I can start the engine! I took a week to find this problem with a kioti wiring diagram. The fuse still comes loose and shuts the engine down. The screws that hold the the metal frame to the plastic hood come loose and fall out. Had to buy replacement screws from the dealer. The engine guard was too close to the hood. The hood kept getting stuck on the engine guard. I replaced the bolts holding the engine guard and added metal spacers to open the hood without having to jam the hood past the engine guard. No help from KIOTI. There has been changes in the design of there 25 HP tractors. Is this a company to trust?

 

[paulfun9]

Have KIOTI 25 HT. Front loader and backhoe. 200 hours. 4 years. fuse to the starter soloniod comes loose and the enginge shutsdown! Press the fuse back in the fuse holder and I can start the engine! I took a week to find this problem with a kioti wiring diagram. The fuse still comes loose and shuts the engine down. The screws that hold the the metal frame to the plastic hood come loose and fall out. Had to buy replacement screws from the dealer. The engine guard was too close to the hood. The hood kept getting stuck on the engine guard. I replaced the bolts holding the engine guard and added metal spacers to open the hood without having to jam the hood past the engine guard. No help from KIOTI. There has been changes in the design of there 25 HP tractors. Is this a company to trust?

Haven’t heard these issues from others?
Seems to me if this was the case with all the Kioti tractors that we would have heard lots of similar complaints. Kind of makes me wonder why so many Kioti owners keep recommending them because we haven’t had any issues worth noting.

By the way HT what?

 

[rademamj1]

I have had typical issues with my Kioti that nearly all tractor owners experience. Dust in the ignition switch, fixed with WD40. AC fan belt broke and fixed with replacement. Once filled the tank with gas instead of diesel. No issues. So after 4 years and 850 hours, I have not had much to complain about with my Kioti. And since I am not a good mechanic, just happy its been so very reliable.

 

[Rdrcr]

Can you imagine any Ford or Toyota dealer saying "If i don't have the part in stock, I will just take off a similar new vehicle". Just because its a Tractor, does clear the Branson dealer from his irresponsible statement.

I won’t say it’s often, but it happens at new-car dealers.

Mike

 

[TheRusty]

Maybe his next trick will be to remove the
steering wheel to adjust the seat????????????

willy

That's a 2025. I have a 1025 (smaller frame). This video shows the cotter pins coming out to the inside. My cotter pins come out into the tires. If there's a trick, I haven't found it.

 

[TheRusty]

I wa


I was curious and just watched a video of someone removing and re installing a backhoe on a 1025. He didn’t seem to have any issues and definately had no need to remove the tires. Makes me wonder exactly what issues your having and why?

Link? Only one's I've seen were not for my model. Dealer confirmed to me they removed the tire when it was their rental unit. Not knowing any better, I figured it was a hangover from importing a core and building a tractor around it in a hurry. I haven't personally changed a tire, but I've seen the plate the tire bolts onto. It's not like changing a car tire. It's not a one person, two hands kind of a job. Two people or a dolly to hold the tire in place while you bolt it on, no problem. The report was, as a one person job, it was a PITA.

We've only taken the backhoe off once to put an augur on, drill a few test holes and then swap the backhoe back on. I'm sure we'll get better at it with some practice.

 

[TheRusty]

My key has Not bent. I have had my rear wheels off and on all by myself, and no harder than any other tractor. I have not found any nits yet that interfere with daily use.

I did, however, find some small design flaws, but i was able to correct all 3 of them myself. Of course my corrections look like DIY things but they work.

The rear wheel on my unit attaches to flat plate. There's no way to steady the tire and bolt the tire onto the plate without a third hand. My tire changer reported he did it by himself but it was a PITA. Since he was the one that blew the tire and fixed it, I didn't get to experience the fun first hand.

My tire changer is also a tad on the larger size of the scale if you know what I mean. When exiting the tractor to the right it's easy for (ahem) larger people to bump up against the key and bend it. With the newer replacement keys (available middle of second model year), it's not a problem. Dealer sent me new keys no problem.

The hazard lights on the ROPS were a joke. One was already hanging by a thread when I bought it. They gave me a new part, but by the time I got it and removed the old part, the other light was already starting to break off. Since Bawb doesn't see street use, both lights are now removed.

 

[Doughknob]

The rear wheel on my unit attaches to flat plate. There's no way to steady the tire and bolt the tire onto the plate without a third hand. My tire changer reported he did it by himself but it was a PITA. Since he was the one that blew the tire and fixed it, I didn't get to experience the fun first hand.

My tire changer is also a tad on the larger size of the scale if you know what I mean. When exiting the tractor to the right it's easy for (ahem) larger people to bump up against the key and bend it. With the newer replacement keys (available middle of second model year), it's not a problem. Dealer sent me new keys no problem.

The hazard lights on the ROPS were a joke. One was already hanging by a thread when I bought it. They gave me a new part, but by the time I got it and removed the old part, the other light was already starting to break off. Since Bawb doesn't see street use, both lights are now removed.

How can the wheel be a pita on a 1025? It is no bigger than my garden tractor/lawn mower. Hazard lights on mine are fine too. It sounds like your tractor was missing some TLC; not that it is an inferior machine.

 

[TheRusty]

It's a pita because I do not have 3 hands and the rear tire is half again bigger than my garden tractor. It could well be lack of tractor experience, but if you compare a 1025R to the CT1025 the difference is obvious. On the CT1025, the tire mounts vertically flat against a plate. There is nothing to support the tire and keep the holes aligned while you bolt it onto the plate. I'm sure it's a piece of cake with the right tools or a second set of hands. When I need to do it again, I'll build a tool. I was thinking of a cradle, but two bolts might get the job done.

 

[IndyJay]

It's a pita because I do not have 3 hands and the rear tire is half again bigger than my garden tractor. It could well be lack of tractor experience, but if you compare a 1025R to the CT1025 the difference is obvious. On the CT1025, the tire mounts vertically flat against a plate. There is nothing to support the tire and keep the holes aligned while you bolt it onto the plate. I'm sure it's a piece of cake with the right tools or a second set of hands. When I need to do it again, I'll build a tool. I was thinking of a cradle, but two bolts might get the job done.

Can you thread one or two studs in a bit to index the wheel until you get a couple of bolts started?

 

[TheRusty]

I don't think so. The plate is thin and I don't think it's threaded. Hopefully I won't need to work this for a while. I was thinking of using longer bolts as temp supports.

 

[paulfun9]

Link? Only one's I've seen were not for my model. Dealer confirmed to me they removed the tire when it was their rental unit. Not knowing any better, I figured it was a hangover from importing a core and building a tractor around it in a hurry. I haven't personally changed a tire, but I've seen the plate the tire bolts onto. It's not like changing a car tire. It's not a one person, two hands kind of a job. Two people or a dolly to hold the tire in place while you bolt it on, no problem. The report was, as a one person job, it was a PITA.

We've only taken the backhoe off once to put an augur on, drill a few test holes and then swap the backhoe back on. I'm sure we'll get better at it with some practice.

I think there are a few here that would like to see some pics of your backhoe attachment points. Something just doesn’t sound right as almost all the backhoe mounting systems we have seen on tractors for about the last 8 years from most brands have been very easy to attach and detach. None in my memory required dismounting tires.

So how about some pics?

 

[TheRusty]

I think there are a few here that would like to see some pics of your backhoe attachment points. Something just doesn’t sound right as almost all the backhoe mounting systems we have seen on tractors for about the last 8 years from most brands have been very easy to attach and detach. None in my memory required dismounting tires.

So how about some pics?

Ya'd think. Just my luck?

This wasn't a priority. But it will be a good challenge. Getting something useful might be difficult. A cell phone might get a better angle. I had to do the cotter pin by feel. My partner in crime said he could see it when he did his side but his hands were too big to work easily in the tight space. I don't plan on taking the backhoe off again until next summer, but I'll take a stab tomorrow at some pics, but expectations are low. As a first time tractor owner with a new to the business model tractor, could be me or could be the tractor design.

As a systems engineer by training, it smells like an integration error that makes perfect sense when you think about how this tractor was built. They had "cores" shipped here by boat from Kioti and ran those down an assembly line, putting on controls, tires, etc. By the time they figured their "production line" design made attaching 3 point implements awkward, it was too late for a year 1 product and attaching 3 point implements is supposed to be awkward, right? But something nagging me is how the CT1025 claimed to be full cat 1 3 point where the 1025R was limited 3 point. Could this be related? What did they do differently? Maybe pics can answer that too? hmmpf. Cya tomorrow.