Advanced framming

[indebt]

Has anybody used advanced framming technique and by this i mean 24inch on center for the floor ,wall,and roof truss. This is becomming popular but does it work in the real world?
Also has anybody used the blue foam board for external wall sheathing ? all coments appreciated. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[slowrev]

Done both, works fine. When using 2X6 studs when doing on 24 inch centers. Have used the blue foam under t-11 siding and vinyl as well.
Ben

 

[beenthere]

I didn't know "24-inch oc" was 'advanced' framing, but certainly it is done. More chance of wavy walls that way, IMO.

Also, with 24" stud space, blue board for sheathing, and vinyl for siding, it wouldn't take much (one sharp utility knife) for an intruder to quickly and quietly cut his way into a home (easier than breaking glass or risking alarmed doors and windows). Just cut the vinyl siding, the blue foam board, remove the insulation (that part I wouldn't like because it makes me itch), and the ½" drywall, and there one has a ready-made door. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[RobS]

Just finished hanging sheetrock on phase II of my basement finishing project. The exterior walls were all studded and insulated by the builder (code) on 24 inch centers. All the interior walls I did myself on 16 inch centers. To do it over again I would have specified 16 inch centers on the exterior walls too. The inevitable kinks and bows in the studs are much more noticable with the wider spacing. Maybe if you use engineered studs it would be as good or better but I wouldn't do a house with it in standard lumber /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[boustany]

Walls is no problem 24" OC if they are 2x6 and properly blocked. Trusses too - if properly decked with clips, etc, provided they are designed for 24" OC.

Floors you gotta watch. I believe it requires very special flooring treatment (maybe double 3/4" ply glued) to avoid bounce.

Blue foam is ok for sheeting, as long as you like nail pops on the drywall. Round here, thats all they use on houses with brick veneer. The houses groan and creek under a strong wind.

Meeting code MINIMUM should not be confused with quality building. I believe in exterior sheathing with OSB or ply. Right now sheathing with OSB will add something like C $500 to the materials cost to a 1000 square foot house. Cheap, if you ask me.

I wouldn't be tempted to go 24" on a floor, just because 'twould be hard to get the bounce out.

 

[slapshot]

I would agree that setting the floor joists or wall studs 24" instead of 16" is a minimal savings.
I am in the process of building now. I wish that I had set my roof trusses 16" oc instead of 24". Would have cost me about $600, the upside is a better roof to walk on, better roof load, better wind load and the drywall will hang better underneath.

-dave

 

[slapshot]

....one other thing about the blue foam board sheathing. It will lose its R-Value over time, typically 10-15 years.

-dave

 

[texbaylea]

Blue foam board has NO shear strength. At a minium use plywood at the corners, OSB works but has less strength than plywood. I see this alot around here but I don't call it "advanced framing" just cheap. For the best in home construction use SIPS -structural insulated panels. Somewhat more expensive, goes up fast, tighter and better insulated house.

Vernon

 

[Darren]

The technical term for bounce as one poster mentioned is deflection. If you have too much deflection in a floor you run the risk of seeing reflection cracking show up in floor tile later. The cracks will mirror the joints in the underlayment. I had a house where the builder put the floor joists on 18" centers instead of 16". Given the size of the joists, that was enough to cause excessive deflection which destroyed several vinyl floors in the kitchen over the years. I'd be real leary of 24" joist spacing unless you use heavier joists and possibly thicker plywood underlayment to give you the rigidity you need to prevent future problems.

 

[ByronBob]

Anything is possible but there are adjustments you need to make with the system you want to use.

When we built last year we had 16" OC walls done 2x6. This allowed the builder to use 3/8" OSB outside for walls.

He also did 16" OC flooring and used 3/4" advantech flooring glued with liquid nails and nails.

We did 24" OC trusses but instead of using 1/2" plywood we again went with 5/8" plywood on the roof for strength. I thought we were going to go with 16" OC on the roof myself but it's not so important IMO with the roof as long as you go with a stronger plywood

If you can I would recommend you go with 16 OC studs and 3/8" OSB outside and use the Tyvek wrap for an outside underlayment under the siding.

I have no waving as is mentioned here as an concern but again I think you need to use 1/2" drywall.

 

[indebt]

Thanks for the input I will be going with 16 inch on center for everything except for the roof, they will be 24 on center with 5/8 plywood. The reason I asked the question is because several builders have mentoned this to me but I have never heard of it before . I would call it cheap building also but when I ran a search on Advaced Building Techniques it is always talking about 24 on center. Thanks for the info.

 

[slapshot]

One thing to look at on your roof is that it may be cheaper to set your trusses 16" oc instead of 24". The cost of sheet good (at least around here) is high and going higher. So buying a couple extra trusses may be cheaper than paying $3-$4 a sheet extra for thicker plywood.

Good luck

-dave

 

[indebt]

That is a good point ,I will need to make some calls but you could be right.

 

[SPIKER]

duane: you mentioned "advantced building" but what you spected was "Advantced Scamming" I would Never buy or let a builder build me a home with out having some sort of ridgid framing on the exterior walls and Never let them space floor joists on anything other than 16" OC the 24" roof trusses is regulary done BUT the 16" is usually less than $1000 more per house unless it is some complicated truss work. figuring that you save 8" per truss that means on a 50' long home you have 13 extra trusses to buy at maybe $50 per truss which is only $650 for the 50' home. cheap insurance if you ever need some protection in a storm.

blue board as mentioned above has 0 shear loading. this means "Racking" of the house lots of these are getting built now and first good wind storm the drywall is all that holds them form sliding over on them selves Expecially for 2 story homes. this blue board practice SHOULD be outlawed and in fact some local municipalities are already zoning it out of acceptance. also blueboard, can not retain siding nails correctly or stop kids from crashing into and breaking though the siding as the siding has 0 backing. std CDX (exterior grade plywood is better than OSB but also costs more $ but it should be 1/2" or thicker is better.


if you do have 24" oc trusses it REQUIRES clips and at least 21/32 sheeting around here. again the cost per sheet is not all that great to bump up from the 7/16" never roof with anything less than that as the nails will not even hold for more than a few years... also note that there HAS to be hurricane strapping nailed using every OPEN nail hole in the strap on every truss in many areas and is a good idea anywhere. the proper nails in those straps too! (yes they require a specific nails types/size to meet the shear loads generated in high winds) also many builders will skimp on roofing too. not using felt or tarpaper at all and laying shingles over the roofing. also note, OSB has a slick side (waxy) and a rough side little dimples and dry wood side. make sure it is installed correctly the wax side should be up but lots of times it is put in down so roofers can walk on it but I belive manufactures call thiis the exterior side and will not warrenty it if it is installed the otherside up...

floor joists should should also have proper bracing between the joists (not more than 8' between X braces in the floor joists.) often "Forgotten by accident." and these need to be nailed in prior to the sub floor going down. one thing I was slightly jipped in when I didn't check it with a tape. this will contribute to floor bounce/giving under walking or moving of heavy loads. the X braces keep the dim lumber from twisting slightly under the load and hence the slight bounce feeling. Sub-floor material min of 3/4" T&G CDX. the OSB can flake badly over time and flexing will cause it to lift fibers up through carpeting in some cases. also with PL400 or better subfloor glue & preferably screws yet many will balk at this.



ok anyhow I'm more of a drywall hanger & finisher so if you need more advice there ask away. also my trade now is induatrial electrician/mantenance. for 10 yrs I was a welder fabricator which I did AFTER hanging drywall for 3 years and being in the military for 6 years. and workign on cars profesional autobody for 4 years rior to that all through jr high & high school. I have lots or well rounded tallents but can't seem to get the hang of not trying somethign NEW /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif (oh also have a 2 yr electronic engineering degree which I learnt I couldn't stand to set and do math all day even though I graduated on deans list with a 3.78 gpa. ( first 3 english & math classes kicked my butt after being out of school for 15 years! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif so my learning curve was longer than the freash from high school kids I was in class with..)

that being said you're area may vary on building practices and zoneing from that of mine. but then again I live in an un-zoned area where you can live in a tent and use an out house as long as you have the water well inspected at time it was dug. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

MarkM

 

[indebt]

Thanks for the informative post , you made lots of good points. I have ruled out the blue board and will most likely go with 16 inch on center for everything just to be safe. I will use 2x6s for the walls and open web truss for the floor.