Adding roof on patio, want to dodge mistakes

Richard · May 31, 2004

We're adding a roofed section to our patio. Upshot, the area concerned is "L" shaped where the (bottom left corner) of the "L" will be the inside corner and the two parts of the "L" are the walls.

I've already hung 2x12's on each exterior wall and planted a 6x6 to hang them on.

My first concern... are the "NEW" treated lumber items, good for direct burial (my 6x6)? It's going into clay, so will probably be damp 99% of the time, if not more.

Please dont ask me about planting the 6x6 into concrete last sunday and MONDAY, She (who must be obeyed) asked if I'd get angry if we moved it (6 inches)... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

I didn't, becuase it was my idea in the first place (to put it where she NOW wanted it) and I honestly felt it simply worked better. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Ok..that said, now we're trying to decide what to do for the roof. Originally, she was going to make/order some kind of canvas and put guide wires inside the 12x12 "box" so we could slide it back/forth as it is opened & closed.

I got to realize, she'd ultimately prefer it closed and wondered about putting a fixed roof on it.

so now we're in a quandry as to what to do on roofing.

Add some 12x12's, put down plywood & put shingles?
Add some 12x12's, put down T&G treated planks? (do they MAKE T&G planks for that?)
I saw on a google search, something about a plastic roof?

Use "regular" 3/4 plywood, treated plywood? (treated is my slant right now)

Given the layout of our gutters, I think I want to make this strong enough to walk on. If I dont, I'll never get access to clean this corner of gutter section. Since I'm using 12x12's, should they be 2', 4' on center? If I use planks, will that change the logic of spacing of 12x12's?

Oh..before someone asks, the area is only 12'x 13' as I recall. The reason I'm using 12x12's is because the house is 12" logs and they match the proportions better. I'm also never worried about building something stronger than it might 'need" to be. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

jfh230 · Jun 3, 2004

For direct burial the old pt wood needed to be .6 treated and usually special ordered. What most lumber yards and big boxes stocked was .4 which was only rated for ground contact, not burial. I don't know about the new stuff, easiest way to find out is talk with your building code official.

With the weight of what you are putting up there - lumber, decking, wind load, snow load (?) - I would be real careful of not having a concrete foundation supporting the posts. Unless you are hitting solid bedrock you are going to get movement on the roof structure and if it is attached to the house it could effect that too.

As for what type of roof covering that is going to depend on what you are looking to use the space under for. Do you care if it drips when it rains? Are you just trying to block the sun? Also what type of roof slope you will have will determine the type of materials. If it's only 1/12 then no sense putting shingles up there, they'll only leak. I definitly would not leave uncovered plywood up there, treated or not.

Spacing of rafters will be a function of the span capabilities of the decking material, local loading conditions and span of the rafter. I think you would be best served by going and talking with your local building code official and see what the local regualtions are before going any further.

Jack

Richard · Jun 3, 2004

Time to display my ignorance...

( you would be best served by going and talking with your local building code official and see what the local regualtions are before going any further )

I must admit, I had not even thought about them... do they come into this concern (potentially) because this is going to be 'attached' to the house? Does this mean permits?

the basic use of this will be covering the 12x13 area from sun & hopefully rain. currently, the setup will be plumb, but she wants to move/raise it (again) so it's above the window on 1 side, that will give it a drop of what ever we want up to about 1 foot in 13 feet.

Regarding concrete, it IS surrounded by concrete. I set post into ground, roughly 4 to 6 inch "gap" around it, and filled in with 1 bag of concrete.

Since she wants to raise it more, no matter what we do, I'll have to rip up the concrete again (2nd time to rip up concrete)

/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

MarkV · Jun 4, 2004

Richard, with a 1' drop in a 13' span you are limited on what roofing materials will work for you. Regular asphalt shingles generally require a drop of at least 4' in a 12' span or a 4/12 pitch. Rolled roofing can go on a flatter pitch but I don't know what the recommended limits are. Metal roofing would most likely be your best bet. It would not require plywood decking and can work on that kind of drop if it fits the aesthetics of your setting.

Areas differ but here, being attached to the house, we would require a permit for what you are doing. Be careful, it can also be considered an addition and get you on property tax.

MarkV

BB_TX · Jun 4, 2004

The patio is a concrete slab? If so and if it is solid and strong, I would use steel pipe with a flat plate with bolt holes welded to one end for the posts. Set those directly on top of the slab with anchor bolts to the slab. I built an attached carport using that method about 25 years ago. I don't live there anymore, but the carport is still there and the posts still look solid.
You could also get some of the special brackets that let you set wood post on top of concrete and anchor them to the slab. That way they would not stay wet.

Mrwurm · Jun 7, 2004

Last summer we put up a shadetree awning. It is made of canvas and slides in runners. It is very similiar to the canvas and guide design that you mentioned. The shadetree products can be ordered with aluminum or plastic support beams, or you can order it to mount directly to your wooden structure. We really like ours.

ShadeTree

Mrwurm · Jun 7, 2004

I've attached a pic of my awning. There are five sections of canvas that can be easily slid back toward the house to reveal the deck to the full sun (if desired)

Richard · Jun 7, 2004

Jerry, yours is VERY close to our "vision". Cut yours in half, and instead of two posts away from house, the house (mine) is "L" shaped, and I only need ONE post to tie to. Otherwise, you're about dead on to what we are currently envisioning.

Oh...and this is NOT a concrete patio... I graded the ground, put down couple inches of that fine "rock" (like coarse sand) and then we put flagstone on top of that, using more of that "sand" to grout between the flagstone.

I'm going to call the county (or whomever) and find out about permits.

Thanks

Richard

Oh... if I rememgber, I'll take a couple pics of this, AND then start a new thread on the HUGE rocks I recently had dropped off in our area for further blockage of TVA's "roads". (as a continued quest in my fight against the idiot who shot/killed Daisey & Wiggles, our 2 dogs).

Lots going on my way, anyone with loaders is welcome and we can have a rock rolling party and the BEST part? it's all on TVA land, and ALL legal!! They've given me written permission to do this, as it helps them stop more treaspassing on their land. Helps me, cause I can "fight back" to the moron who killed my dogs and make me feel better.

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Mrwurm · Jun 7, 2004

Richard, is there a thread about the dogs? I think I missed it.

Richard · Jun 7, 2004

Well Jerry, if I can do this right, THIS is the story about Daisy & Wiggles getting killed (murdered). Unless they've been deleted, there are some graphic pics in there too, so be warned.

As it may be... that dark cloud brought a silver lining to us, in that we then got Otis... then HE came down with parvo and almost died... THAT story is HERE again... if I did this right

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

And today, Otis is feisty, fine & dandy and just loves to be a dog with a lot of room to lay around (he doesn't run like Daisy did)

Richard · Jun 7, 2004

Well, I contacted the county about the permits... seems it's gonna run me $5.00!!! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif BUT, the good news, is... I think I can afford that /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

She said they will NOT come out to inspect it, they need a permit, just so we are aware of the setbacks. (they want the roofed structure 50' back from front property line, 35' from back property line and 20' from side property line)

She clearly told me that no one woudl ever come out to 'check'. Good thing, as I dont think I'd meet the 35' from rear property line lol.

The back border of land (which abuts the "family owned" farm) is probably NEAR 35'... but even if it ISNT, the day will be here sometime, where my wife will inherit a couple of acres and we'll just push our border back... heck, she's ALREADY created "hidden gardens" and other patios (complete with power supply) in our side yard...or more exactly "on the farm", as technically, it crosses our border and goes off "our" land.

I've fought her on this, but she's maintained "Dad doesn't mind" (and he doesn't). But they wont listen to me about ..."well, then why not just move our border "NOW" and be done with all concerns about it....

sigh...

MarkV · Jun 8, 2004

That is good news about the permit Richard. Most of my permitting has been in a big city and you would not believe some of the issues it could create when all you want is something simple. I am not even down on inspectors like many of my peers in the construction trades. I think the code process is needed for safety and protection of building owners. It is just that one rule can't fit all circumstances and can really unnecessarily complicate some projects.

Good luck with the rest of the project.

MarkV

Golfgar4 · Jun 8, 2004

Richard,

I guess I'm still not totally clear on what you're looking to do. Just looking for shade? Or need something a bit more substantial?

A few years ago we did somewhat the same thing that Jerry did. Our solution is a bit more stationary than Jerry's however. I've attached a picture.

The metal framework is either bolted directly into the concrete patio, or there were concrete pilings poured for the legs that were in the grass. The framework stays up all year, but the awning company comes out each November and takes the awning off and stores it until until the following spring. Usually around mid april or so they show up to re-install it for the summer. It's 17 x 17.

If this is something you'd like more information about, let me know. I'd be happy to fill you in. And I have more pics also. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Mrwurm · Jun 8, 2004

Garry, that's gonna make a fine tractor shelter /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

(Assuming you've not just been teasing us and you're actually gonna retire, move to the country, and get a tractor some day) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Golfgar4 · Jun 8, 2004

( Garry, that's gonna make a fine tractor shelter )

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I actually DID measure it to see if a ROPS would fit under it. The wife saw me measuring the clearance and asked why I was doing that. I said, "Oh, no specific reason honey. Just wanted to know how much space there was."

Her response? "Well, why would you want to know that? We can walk under it just fine. We don't need a lot of ........uh.......Oh no. You can't be thinking..........? OH NO!! OH NO!!"

Of course, I just stood there and looked shocked. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

"Why, whatever are you talking about?"

She just walked away doing shaking her head and doing that wife kind of thing. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

( (Assuming you've not just been teasing us and you're actually gonna retire, move to the country, and get a tractor some day) )

Hey, you're batting 1,000! That's STILL the plan! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Richard · Jun 8, 2004

Gary, yours is similar to our concept. Yours is on the flat edge of your house, whereas ours will be located in a corner. As such, I already have a 6x6 treated (new kind) of post buried in concrete

Anyway, 6x6 treated roughly 14' out from both edges of house, with a 2x12x14 anchored to the house with a joist hanger and bolted onto the 6x6 with carriage bolts (2 per 2x12).

Now we have this spacious "box" up in the air, roughly 14x14 and she's going to try to make a home made canopy for it. I then realized it would be much easier if we just hard roofed it, hence this thread as to what would make good material.

I need access ABOVE this area to get to corner of house/guttering, so it either needs to be soft/removable, or hard and firm. I'm prepared to add as many 2x12's as needed to make it strong AND asthetic.

(we used 2x12 because they match up with the 12 inch flat faced logs)

So, here I sit today with this box overhead, scratching my head as to what the roof MIGHT be made of (you think we'd deciied that early on???) "I love her...I love her... " he keeps repeating... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I'm trying to get power under there for some lighting, ceiling fan & she's just scoffing at all of it..."we can use candels"

My thinking is, more 2x12's spaced 2 or maybe 3' apart, depending how it fits with the window we have, toss some treated plywood up there as a "floor", and then finish it off with?????

I've also been trying to configue in my head, a retractable roof, made of canvas?? or something, and some kind of track (garage door??) that I can use as it's guide to open/close it.

She has some (cheap & flyweight) canvas she bought, she's currently going to paint DRYLOCK onto it to "waterproof" it (I love her...I love her...) and then stich some grommets into this. Bad thing is, we tried to grommet this once, and hang it from a hook, and the thread simply seperated. (very cheapo) Why she refuses to remember that and think it's going to work as a larger (heavier) item, is beyond me..I just keep reminding myself "I love her...I love her..."

She wants to try it...fine, we'll try it. She wants to redo it...fine, we'll redo it. (just like the 6x6 in concrete being moved once and TWICE coming up)

Anyway, I'm babbling. Sry.

Help clarify any? (other than my wife is loony at times? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

Golfgar4 · Jun 8, 2004

I guess I forgot that you'd said you wanted to be able to get up on it to get to your gutters.

Certainly I can't do that on mine. Although the material the awning is made out of is REALLY tough, I would never think of trying to get up on it and stand. You mention that your wife has some "cheap and flyweight" canvas she's going to try to use. Based on what I've seen with ours, I would strongly urge you to have her reconsider. I don't know what "grade" our awning material is (I can try to find out if you'd like), but I can assure you that it's a whole lot tougher than what you've described sounds like. I've been very pleased with the strength of this awning, especially considering some of the winds we've had this spring. At times on very windy days, we can hear the awning snapping and popping throughout the whole house. I've looked it over closely, and I can't find any evidence that any seams are separating or any of the connections to the frame are giving way.

Wish I could offer you more advice. I'm sure you'll figure out a good solution. Please remember to take some pictures when you do! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Richard · Jun 8, 2004

Roger on the pics... and roger on your understanding that her current stuff is flyweight. She "got a bargain" on it.

How many times have I tried to tell her that spending good $$ on (perceived) junk, is NEVER a "bargain" unless you are the seller & not the buyer?

(keeps repeating to self... I love her...I love her...I love her...)

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif