Adding rear remote and 3rd function FEL Kubota L4240

[brianrohr13]

I've been studying this amazing write up. Thank you Piston great job, it's got me on the right track but I still have a few questions.
https:// QQQ.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/232020-how-i-added-rear-remote.html

Use your imagination on the links I posted to reconstruct them, i changed the w's to q's. I tried to post links and it failed because I haven't been an active enough forum member.

I currently have 0 remotes on my kubota l4240. I have 50 acres, 37 tillable that is all going to hay this year for me to bale myself. Last year I ran a couple hoses up to the curl function on the loader and that is how I lifted the gate on my 4x4 round baler and lifted the mower. I'm not doing that again.
So I only need 1 remote there. I also have a backblade with hydrolic angle that I bought 6-7 years ago because price was right. I've never used it yet, but I knew someday I'd have a tractor. Since this spring, now I have that tractor. Time to add remotes.

So, what is my need today?? 1 remote. What an I going to do? Install 5 I want top and tilt. That's two. I want to be capable of running a blade that does offset, angle, and tilt.....ya know, the works. That makes 5. Or maybe a box blade with hydrolic teeth and guide wheel. All the fun stuff I've been reading about in this forum. I could get by with 4, so my theory is go five.

I also have a backhoe. Kubota BH92. I've been studying and I realize that the hoses I have at the back of my tractor are in the power beyond loop. Those plug right into the backhoe and send PB fluid to that valve. Here's what I'm thinking. Go from those hoses as is (or Trace back and remove and run new) to the new 5 spool on the fender just like in Piston's install. From there, top and tilt is 2. I got three left.

This is where more questions start. T&T are both double acting float, I think. The other 3. Can one be backhoe/wood splitter capable. I need to size the current hose that is at the back of my tractor and make sure the new valve is same flow and will be sufficient to run backhoe. The thought there is a valve that I turn on and it stays on. I don't want to have to bungee. But I'm not sure what to call that valve. Then whatever I plug in there (correct me if I'm wrong) needs to have it's own open center valve because that remote it's acting like a power beyond just pushing that fluid?? So with everything I'm talking about (and whatever you guys wanna point out) how do I configure the 5 spools? There is single acting, double acting, float, detent, ect. Can float and detent be on the same one??? I think I've given a pretty good run down of how I would use the 5 spools. I'll try and post a picture of the configure options. Here's a link to the one I'm looking at.

https:// QQQ.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Sectional-Control-Valves/5-Spool-Prince-SV-Sectional-Control-Valve-Open-Center-w-Power-Beyond-9SV-5-Y.axd


I'd like to learn what all those valve options mean. I know some I won't need for the rear remotes but it would be nice to know even things like metering spool and motor spool because maybe it's possible I need something like that when I move on to the FEL 3rd function project. Is metering or motor what you need to run a skid steer power rake? I dunno. Not even sure I have enough hydro flow to run a power rake but definitely something I want to look into. I have a spot that needs to be raked and if I could rent a rake and use it, that'd be great. I know someday I'll have a grapple. I would also like to add cylinder for FEL attachment locking pins. So maybe I need third and 4th function FEL. Is what I'm talking about wanting a true FEL function? I dunno how all those terms apply just yet and I'm not even sure what skid steer type equipment I could run off the FEL. I just want a setup that allows me to push it to the limit and then slightly over. :laughing:

I also need to figure out if I should do the front and rear projects seperate or at the same time.

Ok, I think I've said enough. I tried to paint the entire picture and I appreciate whatever advice ya'll give me.

Attached is the picture. Hopefully someone can explain all these options.

 

[RNeumann]

Wow that’s a lot to digest! I would skip the valve you link and get something like this.

BUCHER - 21 GPM MANUAL DIRECTIONAL CONTROL STACK VALVES | Trausch Dynamics

You build the valve “stack” just like you want it. You can add the electric over hydraulic for your 3rd function to the stack or do it separate. Note I linked the 21gpm valves but you may want bigger valves.

Basically power beyond out of the loader control valve, into the stack and back into the case. If you added a separate third function valve it can be before or after your stack.

Scorpion makes the best joystick switch for you electric over hydraulic valve. The basic two button is all you need for the third function.

 

[ericm979]

You don't need float for top and tilt. It doesn't hurt, but the implements should handle it. What you're looking for in a valve to operate a backhoe is "detent". In addition to the usual springs that return the valve to center (off), there is a detent position like the float position on your loader. Except that rather than putting the valve in float, it keeps it on.

You should get valves with capacity more than your tractor's loader and accessory circuit (not both that and the steering circuit together as many manufacturers report). But not too much more or it will be difficult to feather the valves.

The electric over hydraulic stackable valves seem to be a lot more expensive than the standalone ones that plug into a DO3 subplate. For whatever that is worth.

The surpluscenter catalog is useful, and they're a good place to buy stuff from.

 

[brianrohr13]

Can you explain a little more about not needing float for top & tilt? I was under the impression that it was a must.

 

[RNeumann]

No float for top and tilt! The 3 pt has no down pressure so all the float is in the 3 pt. The 3 pt moves up and down (down to the level you set it) to follow the contours of the ground. The top and tilt are simply hydraulically adjustable top and side links. If they moved or floated after you set them that wouldn’t work at all!

 

[brianrohr13]

Does a 3 point move each side independently as it floats or float all as one??

I was under the impression the option to float the side link, when necessary, would follow the contours of the ground better than how the 3 point does. And a nice benefit of the option to float the top link is when hooking up to implements you can put it in float, hop off the tractor and push/pull the cylinder right where you want it.

 

[RickB]

I would spec out a valve with float to control a hydraulic top link. No doubt.

 

[RNeumann]

Does a 3 point move each side independently as it floats or float all as one??

I was under the impression the option to float the side link, when necessary, would follow the contours of the ground better than how the 3 point does. And a nice benefit of the option to float the top link is when hooking up to implements you can put it in float, hop off the tractor and push/pull the cylinder right where you want it.

Adding a float detent won’t add much, if any, cost- if you think you need it, and are building your own valve stack you can do what you want.

 

[ptsg]

Float on top link is nice to have. Specially with mowers or flail mowers. As it will move freely and contour the ground.

 

[ericm979]

Does a 3 point move each side independently as it floats or float all as one??

The 3pt arms go up and down together but there's play in various parts that allow a moderate amount of angle in the implemnt. And many wide implements like flails and ditch bank mowers have a way to allow the implement to tilt, like a vertical slot or short linkage arm for one side of the 3pt.

I was under the impression the option to float the side link, when necessary, would follow the contours of the ground better than how the 3 point does. And a nice benefit of the option to float the top link is when hooking up to implements you can put it in float, hop off the tractor and push/pull the cylinder right where you want it.

That would be useful, it's not something I'd considered. My Branson's factory remotes don't offer float. When hooking up an implement I can reach the levers from behind the tractor and operate the cylinders to get them in the right position. Of course that require having the engine running. I turn it off or put the PTO drive in neutral before messing with the implement's PTO shaft if it has one.

 

[RickB]

That would be useful, it's not something I'd considered. My Branson's factory remotes don't offer float.

Apparently float is only unnecessary if you do not have it. Having it then giving it up would be an inconvenience for most.

 

[Fallon]

Apparently float is only unnecessary if you do not have it. Having it then giving it up would be an inconvenience for most.

Yup. I use float on my toplink all the time. When mowing it's always in float. I dont use it much on the sidelink though. The current Kubota rear remote valves suck bad (on valve # 6 or 7 now under warranty). My toplink valve holds finally but I've given up on the sidelink valve holding. Going to put in a piloted check valve to counter the leaky valve. That will basically break float on that cylinder.

You can definitely run TnT without float, but it adds a lot of value, especially on the toplink.

 

[Michael In Tennessee]

Yes, you can use your backhoe loop to run your valves. Just add appropriate length hoses to connect to the existing hoses. This is what I did on my MX4800. I added my valves down near where the OEM valves would fit. One of the backhoe hoses would reack, but I needed a 2 ft hose to reach the other connection. On the fender, two short hoses would be needed.

The 21 gpm valve is likely too larger. I suspect something in the 10 gpm range is more appropriate. A too large valve makes feathering controls difficult. Also, don't forget you need a valve with power beyond capability and the appropriate PB sleeve. To will also need a tank return line nad need to Tee into the existing tank return line under the right side of the tractor. I had to source a swivel Tee for that and then remove the existing Loader tank line which has a 90 degree end for one with a straight end.

 

[/pine]

I admit I've never pulled a mower or cutter but I have had most other common attachments on my 3PH in the nine years I've had hydraulic T&T...and I've never used the float detent but once or twice to see the results (mostly grading implements) and immediately took it out of float...I like to constantly make minor adjustments on the fly...

...most of what I read about using mowers and cutters....a short piece of chain is used rather than a solid link...

 

[brianrohr13]

It's only $26 for the float option. Is there a reason not to have it at that price? I mean, why not have it? It's there if I need it, it's there if I don't need it, right?

 

[Fallon]

It's only $26 for the float option. Is there a reason not to have it at that price? I mean, why not have it? It's there if I need it, it's there if I don't need it, right?

It adds a couple inches to the bottom of the valve. It can be a hair confusing for a few seconds if you dont know how it operates. A proper install probably negates the first issue unless you are super cramped. You should have the 2nd issue sorted out already or within 5-10 seconds of operating the valve the first time. So no, not really any good reasons to avoid it at that price.

 

[Fallon]

I admit I've never pulled a mower or cutter but I have had most other common attachments on my 3PH in the nine years I've had hydraulic T&T...and I've never used the float detent but once or twice to see the results (mostly grading implements) and immediately took it out of float...I like to constantly make minor adjustments on the fly...

...most of what I read about using mowers and cutters....a short piece of chain is used rather than a solid link...

I use float a bit with the box blade, but not often. Lift the 3pt up a ways & leave it in float. That packs & smooths a little without cutting as it rides on the back facing cutting edge. Basically the same effect as back dragging with a bucket.

Float & chain (or the flex link on any mower made for a long time) accomplish the same thing on a mower. With a quick hitch I dont have to unhook my top cylinder to put on a chain. With the QH, it's easier than messing with some of the flex links. With a QH & TnT I can generally hitch up without getting off the machine unless there are hydraulics or PTO to attach.

 

[brianrohr13]

The 21 gpm valve is likely too larger. I suspect something in the 10 gpm range is more appropriate. A too large valve makes feathering controls difficult. Also, don't forget you need a valve with power beyond capability and the appropriate PB sleeve. To will also need a tank return line nad need to Tee into the existing tank return line under the right side of the tractor. I had to source a swivel Tee for that and then remove the existing Loader tank line which has a 90 degree end for one with a straight end.

Here's some specs I found on my tractor. How do in interpret this information for valve sizing?

Pump flow: 9.8 gpm [37.1 lpm]
Total flow: 14.7 gpm [55.6 lpm]
Steering flow: 4.9 gpm [18.5 lpm]



He's the specs from the valve in had picked out. Is that 12gpm for each of the 5 valve? Not really sure what Y valve means.

Specifications for Y valves
Flow 12 GPM (nominal) to 16 GPM maximum
Pressure 3000 PSI maximum
Adjustable relief 1500-3000, factory set at 2000
Open Center with Power Beyond
Inlet and Power Beyond Ports SAE 8
Outlet Port SAE 10
Work Ports SAE 8

 

[RickB]

A 10 GPM valve is enough. From a practical standpoint I think you will find a 12 GPM valve more common and that will work just fine as well. As stated, 21 is too much.

 

[RNeumann]

Here's some specs I found on my tractor. How do in interpret this information for valve sizing?

Pump flow:9.8 gpm [37.1 lpm]
Total flow:14.7 gpm [55.6 lpm]
Steering flow:4.9 gpm [18.5 lpm]



He's the specs from the valve in had picked out. Is that 12gpm for each of the 5 valve? Not really sure what Y valve means.

Specifications for Y valves
Flow 12 GPM (nominal) to 16 GPM maximum
Pressure 3000 PSI maximum
Adjustable relief 1500-3000, factory set at 2000
Open Center with Power Beyond
Inlet and Power Beyond Ports SAE 8
Outlet Port SAE 10
Work Ports SAE 8

If I’m not mistaken the pressure relief and setting is in your loader control. I don’t think you need a pressure relieving valve.

With 37 acres and the bailer I would make sure everything is designed for the flow. QDs can be a choke point, along with the valves. Your operation isn’t the “typical” homeowner who uses a bit here and there. You are asking a lot form that machine (and I’m sure it will do great!) and I would just make sure your new valves etc aren’t adding heat (from restricted flow) to the equation.