Adding lines for root grapple

[Hobie918]

Hi everyone, I know this question gets asked a lot on here, but I am still confused after reading through a lot of similar posts.

I have a John Deere 4400 with a 430 FEL and have a root grapple that I need to add a line for the open/close function. From what I have read, I don't believe my tractor has a power beyond and I would like a true third function for the grapple. I went to my local Deere store and they quoted me out at 10k to get the 3rd function, so that is out of the question.

When taking a look under my FEL joystick it looks like there are two more ports that are just capped off and maybe those could be used? (Pictures attached)


Anyway, I'd appreciate any help on getting these lines hooked up and let me know if there's any info you need that I left out!

 

[MtnViewRanch]

If you don't mind me asking, why do you want a true 3rd function valve to use with your grapple?

 

[Hobie918]

The way I should have said that is that I want to be able to tilt and close the grapple at the same time, regardless of how that is accomplished. The way I interpreted a true 3rd function is that you can use it simultaneously with another function and other methods would only allow for one movement at a time.

 

[k0ua]

The way I should have said that is that I want to be able to tilt and close the grapple at the same time, regardless of how that is accomplished. The way I interpreted a true 3rd function is that you can use it simultaneously with another function and other methods would only allow for one movement at a time.

Everyone will have an opinion on this, but yes, I have one too. And I think the "true third function" is overated. But then again, I don't have/use one. I have a convenient rear remote valve that I use with my fingers while my palm is on the joystick, I again opinion only, but I believe I can operate and set up and grab rocks and brush just as fast as a "true third function" button setup. I also believe a diverter that uses your joystick to control both the lid and curl function would also be just as fast. Others will disagree, but just how many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Ok, I suppose it makes a big difference with how one goes about picking stuff up. I guess if you are grabbing stuff from over the top and coming down on the material, then that may be the way to go. If you drive into the pile and grabbing from the bottom, then ( I anyway) would want to close the grapple before I ever even thought about curling up or raising the grapple. The way that I operate my grapple, it would be a huge waste of time to curl and close the grapple at the same time. To much stuff falling out that would not be clamped yet.

I also guess that you meant $1000 for the true 3rd function from your dealer, not $10,000. $1000 installed is not really all that bad of a cost. Yes you can do it cheaper, a lot cheaper, but most likely won't be getting the same things either.

Good luck.

 

[murphy1244]

Everyone will have an opinion on this, but yes, I have one too. And I think the "true third function" is overated. But then again, I don't have/use one. I have a convenient rear remote valve that I use with my fingers while my palm is on the joystick, I again opinion only, but I believe I can operate and set up and grab rocks and brush just as fast as a "true third function" button setup. I also believe a diverter that uses your joystick to control both the lid and curl function would also be just as fast. Others will disagree, but just how many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin?

View attachment 406044View attachment 406045View attachment 406046

just how many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin? Exactly 5966014

 

[/pine]

Not sure about simultaneous operation of the curl and the grapple but this is a fairly cheap option...

If the FEL valve does not have a PB port...buy a valve that does...service the grapple with the new valve with the pressure line now on the FEL valve...then from the PB port back to the P port on the FEL valve...Tee the return port on the new valve into the existing return on the FEL valve...

 

[Hobie918]

k0ua, that looks like a pretty nice set up and would accomplish what I need moving brush and debris. Could you explain to me a little bit about what a remote valve is or what parts are required to get it installed? Each time I see a diverter conversation, it always seems to have such mixed opinions that I started looking into other options.

 

[Hobie918]

Ok, I suppose it makes a big difference with how one goes about picking stuff up. I guess if you are grabbing stuff from over the top and coming down on the material, then that may be the way to go. If you drive into the pile and grabbing from the bottom, then ( I anyway) would want to close the grapple before I ever even thought about curling up or raising the grapple. The way that I operate my grapple, it would be a huge waste of time to curl and close the grapple at the same time. To much stuff falling out that would not be clamped yet.

I also guess that you meant $1000 for the true 3rd function from your dealer, not $10,000. $1000 installed is not really all that bad of a cost. Yes you can do it cheaper, a lot cheaper, but most likely won't be getting the same things either.

Good luck.

When I was thinking about the simultaneous operation, I was thinking a little more about when I'd be dumping it into a trailer, but it sounds like it isn't that much of an inconvenience to control them independently. Also, the $10,000 wasn't a typo, they left me dumbfounded when they hit me with that number!

 

[MtnViewRanch]

When I was thinking about the simultaneous operation, I was thinking a little more about when I'd be dumping it into a trailer, but it sounds like it isn't that much of an inconvenience to control them independently. Also, the $10,000 wasn't a typo, they left me dumbfounded when they hit me with that number!

I would be looking for a new dealer, WOW, that is unbelievable. Is there something special about your hydraulic system that just is not very common?

Anyway, cheapest electric diverter system is going to be from Kens grab hooks. He can walk you through this. The electric diverters really are the way to go IMO and pretty simple to install.

Keep asking questions and we will keep, well we will keep something or another.

 

[Hobie918]

As far as I know my tractor is pretty standard, but I'm new to this so maybe they knew something I don't. Either way, I'm set on doing it myself at this point! Would I still need an electric diverter if I have a PB in my current valve. I am still looking around for a manual to make sure I have one, but it looks like I do.



Thanks for you help and your patience with me, I'll get the hang of this at some point! :newhere:

 

[kennyd]

First, your dealer is NUTS. That's the "I don't want to be bothered go away" price, and go away you should.

Second, Your 4400 already has 3rd SCV, (#1 and #2 is for the loader connected to the joystick), just no way to control it. JD has (actually had since these are 10+ years old) a kit to control it, it added the handle, hardlines, hardware, couplers, ect to use the valve.

All you would have to do is run long 1/4" hoses from the rear to the front. These kits will eventually go away since they are 10+ years old, so even if you want to add a diverter I would suggest getting this anyway.

The part number is LVBM19695: John Deere 3RD SCV KIT LVBM19694




Yes, I sell a diverter kit as Brian mentioned (Thanks Brian!). You could add that to your loader and "divert" the dump/curl circuit. Adding the true "3rd function" valves on these tractors is more difficult than others because the valves are mounted directly to the transmissions and dos have accessible hoses like other brands do.

 

[woodchipper]

Per your above picture, looks like you have a third spool available on this valve. therefore, you could easily connect your lines from the grapple. But what you need is a lever on that third spool (you may need to modify it for ergonomic conveniences; ie: ease of operation. If feasable, then you will have your grapple operating in no time. This is very close from being a true third fonction in my opinion.
About your dealer quoting you 10k, I would personally meet the owner face to face to get this straight Totally unacceptable sir.

 

[k0ua]

k0ua, that looks like a pretty nice set up and would accomplish what I need moving brush and debris. Could you explain to me a little bit about what a remote valve is or what parts are required to get it installed? Each time I see a diverter conversation, it always seems to have such mixed opinions that I started looking into other options.

The Rear Remote valve and outlet ports were existing on the tractor as standard equipment on every Kioti of the DK lineup.

Just like an LS will have 2 of those rear remote valves as a factory default.



What you see here is the quick connects on the "torque tube" on the front of the loader to hook the grapple hoses to, then the right center step mid-tractor where the other loader hoses disconnect so that these hoses can be broken in two and the front half stay with the loader when you take the loader off just like the original 4 loader hoses. Then the rear remote connections on the back of the tractor (usual place for remote's) with quick connects and right angle adaptors so the hoses are pointing down.

 

[ovrszd]

Whichever way you go will be an amazing improvement to the usability of the FEL. For me, I like true 3rd function. Some will say they can't imagine doing 3 functions at once. I say, I can't imagine not being able to. My Grapple is on my FEL 90% of the time and I use it for everything imaginable. I would be very disappointed to make a choice between curl and grab. But as I said in the beginning, you will be impressed with whatever you design. If you choose a diverter system and never run a true 3rd function you'll never know the difference. So let cost be your guide.

When I run into a pile of whatever and try to pick it up I hold the Grapple close button while at the same time lifting and curling to fill the bucket. I never dribble loose material or lose something out of the Grapple, it is always tightening it's grip on the object at hand.

Again, whatever you choose, you'll be impressed with the gain in efficiency.

 

[oldtimer 66]

Here is a New Holland 55 HP tractor that I worked on last year. I was not the brains behind this project but it worked out very well. Third SCV mounted on under side of Woods Loader control valve and flex lines to the center loader support tube with flush connectors.

 

[oldtimer 66]

I am not familiar with how this site works but here are a couple more pics of the 3rd SCV

 

[oldtimer 66]

 

[TimBuck2]

Oldtimer, i am looking to do the same thing on my Kubota. Would you reply with the brand and model of the control valve please?

Thanks,
Tim

 

[gladehound]

The Rear Remote valve and outlet ports were existing on the tractor as standard equipment on every Kioti of the DK lineup.

Just like an LS will have 2 of those rear remote valves as a factory default.

View attachment 406073View attachment 406074View attachment 406075

What you see here is the quick connects on the "torque tube" on the front of the loader to hook the grapple hoses to, then the right center step mid-tractor where the other loader hoses disconnect so that these hoses can be broken in two and the front half stay with the loader when you take the loader off just like the original 4 loader hoses. Then the rear remote connections on the back of the tractor (usual place for remote's) with quick connects and right angle adaptors so the hoses are pointing down.

James - I don't have an identical tractor but it is similar enough. I have a DS4510HS that I want to add a grapple to. I also have a rear remote and a lever to control it already installed. Do you happen to have a parts list for your install that you could share? I see 4 sets of male and female quick connects. 2 x 90 degree elbows. How much hydraulic hose would I need to buy and what is the ID of the hose? Thanks a ton. - Ron