actual use of tier 4

[MessickFarmEqu]

I'm sorry your just not right. Your looking at this from the perspective of engines of years gone by that's simply not true any more. No one said more RPM does not equal more fuel... of course it does. What I said is that its not linear. It uses a smidgen more fuel to get the pistons going faster, but without the added torque load there is no need for full fuel. This is a smart electronically injected engine now, not a dumb mechanical fuel pump.

It is also certainly more efficient than engines from Tier 2 and Tier 3 where things where du-tuned to meet emissions. The good thing about tier 4 is that with after-treatment there is much more latitude on how the engine is tuned so power and fuel use can be optimized.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I'm sorry your just not right. Your looking at this from the perspective of engines of years gone by that's simply not true any more. No one said more RPM does not equal more fuel... of course it does. What I said is that its not linear. It uses a smidgen more fuel to get the pistons going faster, but without the added torque load there is no need for full fuel. This is a smart electronically injected engine now, not a dumb mechanical fuel pump.

It is also certainly more efficient than engines from Tier 2 and Tier 3 where things where du-tuned to meet emissions. The good thing about tier 4 is that with after-treatment there is much more latitude on how the engine is tuned so power and fuel use can be optimized.

 

[kenmac]

Well, everything that I have read / seen,, engines that have to go into re generation use more fuel.... All the new diesel trucks get less fuel mileage than the older ones ,because of the regen process.. Regen, requires more fuel to be burned in order to clean the DPF..This extra fuel is wasted, because it's only being used for 1 thing.. to clean the DPF.. How is that efficient ?

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

I think part of the problem might be the conflation of efficiency, economy, and consumption. :confused3: :drink:

 

[Topesrule]

if I understand correctly, my tractor uses fuel when it is doing a regen to heat the exhaust, so it is less efficient during the regen. the thing is it only regens for about 20 minutes every 20 some odd hours. if it's a more fuel efficient engine for those other 20 hours then I would think that's more than making up for the 20 minutes of the regen. The engine seems extremely fuel efficient in my experience.

 

[kenmac]

if I understand correctly, my tractor uses fuel when it is doing a regen to heat the exhaust, so it is less efficient during the regen. the thing is it only regens for about 20 minutes every 20 some odd hours. if it's a more fuel efficient engine for those other 20 hours then I would think that's more than making up for the 20 minutes of the regen. The engine seems extremely fuel efficient in my experience.

Don't know if it's true with tractors or not...But,That hasn't been the case with vehicles.. When the manufactures starting installing DPF's on the new diesel trucks,, fuel Mileage went down

 

[Popb1949]

Most complaints on the B series Kubota tractors with tier 4 DPF have been in the extreme north where they do snow removal. They run at low RPMs to operate snow blowers.
Down south they have very little problems with Kubota B series tier 4 tractors
They don't run the tractors at high RPMs and it is already cold. So the tractor does not get hot enough to Regen completely and most B series Kubota owners are not true tractor people the know very little about Tier 4 tractors.
Residential use is different from commercial use where they work hard!
They must generate heat to do a complete Regen ,
Low RPMs and extrem cold is the problem!

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

if I understand correctly, my tractor uses fuel when it is doing a regen to heat the exhaust, so it is less efficient during the regen. the thing is it only regens for about 20 minutes every 20 some odd hours. if it's a more fuel efficient engine for those other 20 hours then I would think that's more than making up for the 20 minutes of the regen. The engine seems extremely fuel efficient in my experience.

My understanding is that the amount of fuel burned in a regen is a tiny fraction of the tractors fuel use, a rounding error in the end.

Any correlations between the on-road truck industries experience with Tier 4 and what we've seen with tractors is really an apples to oranges comparisons. As has been covered many times, the workload and usage patters between truck and tractor engines are completely different and technologies matured quite a bit before making it to us.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

if I understand correctly, my tractor uses fuel when it is doing a regen to heat the exhaust, so it is less efficient during the regen. the thing is it only regens for about 20 minutes every 20 some odd hours. if it's a more fuel efficient engine for those other 20 hours then I would think that's more than making up for the 20 minutes of the regen. The engine seems extremely fuel efficient in my experience.

My understanding is that the amount of fuel burned in a regen is a tiny fraction of the tractors fuel use, a rounding error in the end.

Any correlations between the on-road truck industries experience with Tier 4 and what we've seen with tractors is really an apples to oranges comparisons. As has been covered many times, the workload and usage patters between truck and tractor engines are completely different and technologies matured quite a bit before making it to us.

 

[forestcreature1]

Just a field update: 2014 deere 3046r/cab 70 hours no issues, 1 regen [auto] only noticed that since it was foggy out and you could see the exhaust plume.

 

[FatTire]

My understanding is that the amount of fuel burned in a regen is a tiny fraction of the tractors fuel use, a rounding error in the end.

Any correlations between the on-road truck industries experience with Tier 4 and what we've seen with tractors is really an apples to oranges comparisons. As has been covered many times, the workload and usage patters between truck and tractor engines are completely different and technologies matured quite a bit before making it to us.

I think you're correct, regen on a tractor is not a huge use of fuel. In the trucking world, the fleet managers learned that managing idle time delivers more fuel savings than is lost to Tier 4. How many people using tractors think about idle time that carefully? Probably not too many.

 

[FatTire]

My understanding is that the amount of fuel burned in a regen is a tiny fraction of the tractors fuel use, a rounding error in the end.

Any correlations between the on-road truck industries experience with Tier 4 and what we've seen with tractors is really an apples to oranges comparisons. As has been covered many times, the workload and usage patters between truck and tractor engines are completely different and technologies matured quite a bit before making it to us.

I think you're correct, regen on a tractor is not a huge use of fuel. In the trucking world, the fleet managers learned that managing idle time delivers more fuel savings than is lost to Tier 4. How many people using tractors think about idle time that carefully? Probably not too many.

 

[knightrider955]

My little Mahindra has over a year on it and no engine issues. It doesn't have to re-gen or add fluid. Just a puff of smoke on start up and no diesel smell. It this is Tier IV, I like it.

Thats because currently any engine 25 HP or less is Not required to have any additional emissions. So they are automatically given the tier 4 designation.

 

[meyerld]

So, I may be totally wrong here but have studied it already way too much. I am buying an 85 HP Deere and at first was anxiously looking for an older version with less of the emissions technology on it. But, the more I talked to people and studied the technical articles, the more it seemed to me that the Tier 4 final version resulted in a cooler running engine and exhaust system. Also, the efficiency of the engine is higher. More efficient and cooler won me over and I went from trying to find one without to only shopping for one with the Tier 4 final. I do have little doubt thought that at some point it will throw some sort of code that will have to be investigated, but again unless I am wrong I believe there is a five year warranty on emissions systems. Now with respect to the 4 cylinder Deere engine, my experience is limited to test driving these although I understand it is the same engine they use in Deere construction division. The models I tested were unbelievably smooth and quiet compared to my 3 cylinder 5065E.

 

[5030]

Far as I'm concerned the ONLY thing that Tier 4 emissions has done for me is give me DEF, which I mix with water and add to my spray rig for fertilizing my hayfields. DEF is 32% urea and deionized water. 5 gallons to 300 gallons in my spray rig makes a dandy foilar fertilizer.

If it don't smoke when I give it fuel, I don't want it.

 

[5030]

Despite what Messicks alludes to, the heavy truck engine manufacturers and the agricultrial engine manufacturers share the same electronic emissions componentry. I happen to work for a Freightliner/Western Star dealership and 85% of our shop work now, is emission component related.

When you source your componentry on a lowest bidder platform, it ultimately fails and thats where the downtime cost comes in. If it poops the bed in the field (I farm and I think about that scenario).... does the techinician come out (in the field), hook up his laptop (because thats the way you diagnose and engine today) and determine what the issue is, or does your dealer bring out a loaner unit (not always practical or doable) and take your back to the shop.... or what.

Most emissions related issues will result in the engione derating (limp home mode) or shutting down and I can afford neither whille farming.

Tier 4 might be fine for a homneowner with a CUT, but, for me, it's just not doable. I cannot afford to take a chance on equipment failure due to an emissions related event.

I'll keep my pre tier 3 tractors, thank you....

And yes, I do get my consumables from Messicks.

 

[Texasmark]

I have owned dozens of diesel units in the past 50 years and have no problems with the NH Tier 4 set up. Most diesel engines are designed to run most efficiently and at the best torque range at 85-90% throttle and when plowing, disking or shredding one should choose a gear that places the tractor in that peak torque range. If you are constantly running a diesel tractor at slow rpm's to do a certain job you most probably need a different type of machinery to do that job. Diesel tractors are designed for high torque, high rpm jobs. Match the machine to the job.

My MF 35, Perkins Diesel 1000 rpm peak torque, 1800ish PTO rpm.
Ford 2000 and 3000 torque not easy to find so I don't know; PTO 1600-1800
Branson 1600 peak torque, PTO 2600.

Cubes on Fords around 150-175ish for 30-40 PTO HP, naturally aspired, direct injection 4 and 3 cyl.
Cubes on Branson 200 for 57 PTO HP, nat. asp. and DI 4 cyl.