Buying Advice About to make my first tractor purchase

[discmen]

Hello all,

I am getting close to pulling the trigger on buying my first tractor. I believe I have settled on an LS XR4155H. We run a horse boarding facility on 40 acres outside of Sacramento. Primarily my wife will be driving the tractor as she operates the facility. She'll be primarily doing loader work so that's why we're going with the hydrostatic. Although I don't believe I need the 55 HP, I'm getting it as a way to "future proof" the tractor in case we want to do something. She borrowed a friend's 35 HP tractor a while back and while tilling into the ground of a dirt arena felt it bogged down so she felt more HP was safer. Along with the tractor, I'm buying a package that includes top and tilt, pallet forks, a box scraper, and a 3-point auger.

A couple questions:

1) Do you think I should go lower horsepower and save the money or stick where I am?

2) As we'll probably be making this purchase this week, I'm wondering what I should be looking for when closing the transaction with the dealer. I was just reading another post and the poster mentioned they got their tires filled as part of the purchase. Is that something that I should be asking for, even if I had to pay a little bit more, because it would be difficult to do myself? Anything else you think I should be looking for?

Bonus question for me: My wife is sold on the LS because she feels the tractor dealer will be easier to get to than others, she likes the fact that we don't have to pay additional for more remotes because three are included, and likes that the LS has all the bells and whistles and is like buying a NH Boomer and a fraction of the cost. However, I read the forums and I've heard that some feel the Kioti is a more stout tractor. I can get essentially the similar Kioti DK6010se-hst for the same price. It's about 300 lbs. lighter and we'd have to at least add a second remote for the tilt function but seems to have a better FEL. Do those 300 lbs matter? Is it worth even pushing the issue?

Thank you guys for all your help. I have enjoyed reading all the commentary on the road to purchasing the tractor.

 

[discmen]

One follow up questions. Moving lower than 55hp in the XR41 series moves from a Category 2 to a Category 1 hitch. Is that really that substantial? I don't have any implements that I have to worry about so it's more choosing the right option from the get go. Thanks.

 

[jeff9366]

Hello all,

I am getting close to pulling the trigger on buying my first tractor. I believe I have settled on an LS XR4155H. We run a horse boarding facility on 40 acres outside of Sacramento. Although I don't believe I need 55 HP, I'm getting it as a way to "future proof" the tractor in case we want to do something. She borrowed a friend's 35 HP tractor a while back and while tilling into the ground of a dirt arena felt it bogged down so she felt more HP was safer.

A couple questions:

1) Do you think I should go lower horsepower and save the money or stick where I am?

Unless you know the weight of the 35-horsepower tractor you cannot make a meaningful comparison.

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Heavier tractor weight is more important for most tractor applications than increased tractor horsepower. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.

Heavier tractors are constructed on larger frames and longer wheelbases. Heavier tractors are built with thicker steel to withstand greater stress. Heavier tractors have larger diameter wheels/tires, increasing ground clearance. Heavier tractors with large diameter wheels/tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires permit heavier tractors to bridge holes, ruts and tree debris with less operator perturbation.

For horses and 40 acres I would go with the 55-horsepower you are considering now. Pasture mowing with a wide cutter is PTO power intensive.

A 35-horspower tractor can operate a 60" Rotary Cutter.

A 55-horsepower tractor can operate a 84" Rotary Cutter.

How much time do you want to spend cutting grass?

LINK: Mowing Calcuator | How many acres can I mow in an hour

 

[jeff9366]

One follow up questions. Moving lower than 55hp in the XR41 series moves from a Category 2 to a Category 1 hitch. Is that really that substantial? I don't have any implements that I have to worry about so it's more choosing the right option from the get go.

Category 1 is the highest unit volume category with the most competitive pricing.

Most dealers stock only a few Category 2 implements so it is more difficult to "shop around" among venders.

How much of your 40-acres will you actually work with tractor implements, other than diffusing manure with a Chain Harrow?

How many acres of grass mowing will you do, if any?

Will you use your tractor for moving round hay bales? How much do round hay bales weigh around Sacramento?
Round Bales vary from 600 pounds to 1,600 pounds.

You can move round bales with a bale spear mounted on the FEL or mounted on the Three Point Hitch. You can lift bales much higher with FEL and ample counterbalance. A lighter tractor can carry round bales on the Three Point Hitch where the front engine provides counterbalance. The rear axle is much heavier than tractor front axle.



Filling rear tires is easy to do yourself. There are numerous videos about filling tractor tires on U-Tube. Fill rear tires only, not fronts.

 

[jeff9366]

I read some feel the Kioti is a more stout tractor. I can get essentially the similar Kioti DK6010se-hst for the same price. It's about 300 lbs. lighter and we'd have to at least add a second remote for the tilt function but seems to have a better FEL. Do those 300 lbs matter?

Within subcompact and compact tractor categories, a significant tractor capability increase requires a bare tractor weight increase of 50%. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Kioti and LS are equal quality, in my opinion. Each marque produces both "standard" tractors and "deluxe" tractors.
Easy to compare apples to oranges if you are not familiar with each marque's nuances.

 

[Professor Marvel]

One follow up questions. Moving lower than 55hp in the XR41 series moves from a Category 2 to a Category 1 hitch. Is that really that substantial? I don't have any implements that I have to worry about so it's more choosing the right option from the get go. Thanks.

Go with the most HP LS Hydro you can get with cat 1.
A lot of things come into play when you say it was bogging down.
1. what range was it in. makes a lot of difference.
2. What RPMs was it at. makes a lot of difference
3. With hydrostatic you need to keep in mind that pushing the pedal down is actually making a higher gear out of it. The motor is going the same speed but you are making it go faster. I am probably not explaining that well because it is not at all the same as using a gas pedal. If i am pushing snow or draggin a road and it starts to bog down if I don't feel like changing the range i back off on the pedal so I am reducing the hydraulic fluid to the drive train which reduces the ratio of the work the drive train is doing and increases the power. Maybe someone can explain better than me or correct me if I am wrong. It is the opposite of what my instincts are from a lifetime of driving so it feels unnatural to let up on the pedal when I need more power so I usually end up dropping the range

anyway just my 2 cents
you need to get a feel for all your equipment individually.
Good Luck

 

[discmen]

Hello Jeff,

Thank you for the response. I have read a lot of your posts and learned much (including the weight issue which is why we moved up to the XR class).

Category 1 implements is the unit volume category with the most competitive pricing.

Most dealers stock only a few Category 2 implements so it is more difficult to "shop around" among venders.

So moving to Category 1 wouldn't necessarily be bad then? However, I believe I read that I can use Category 1 on Category 2 hitches, correct? So I would not be handicapped (paying higher prices) if I purchased a tractor with a Category 2?

How much of your 40-acres will you actually work with tractor implements, other than diffusing manure with a Chain Harrow?

How many acres of grass mowing will you do, if any?

Will you use your tractor for moving round hay bales? How much do round hay bales weigh around Sacramento?
Round Bales vary from 600 pounds to 1,600 pounds.

So right now not much of it. Most of the ranch is in pasture boarding where the horse eat down the grass. So we don't anticipate mowing, however, my wife does talk about the tarweed being an issue so we might need to do that in the future. We would be doing manure spreading, maintaining the arena, and using the box scraper to maintain our driveway and to build paths (my wife wants to put in a horse obstacle course).

We do not have round bales around here. 100 lb. square bales instead. That is what the pallet forks are for. To both move bales and to also move feeders and other types of horse equipment.

 

[discmen]

Thanks Professor Marvel,

Go with the most HP LS Hydro you can get with cat 1.

OK, that would be XR4150H...dropping 5 HP and reducing cost by $1k. You believe the Cat 2 would be a detriment?

A lot of things come into play when you say it was bogging down.

I wish I could now answer all those questions. Several years ago and neither I nor my wife knew much about tractors (don't know much more now but hoping to learn).

 

[jeff9366]

discmen

I have read a lot of your posts and learned much (including the weight issue which is why we moved up to the XR class).



So moving to Category 1 wouldn't necessarily be bad then?
No, it would not.

However, I believe I read that I can use Category 1 on Category 2 hitches, correct?
With three pin bushings, about $1 each, yes.

So I would not be handicapped (paying higher prices) if I purchased a tractor with a Category 2 Three Point Hitch?

You generally want implements matched to weight/power of tractor under consideration. There are always imprudent operators that pull Cat 1 implements behind heavy Cat2 tractors at high speed until Cat 1 implements destruct. Then imprudents complain on T-B-N about how weak/poorly welded Cat 1 implements are.

 

[jeff9366]

Most of the ranch is in pasture boarding where the horse eat down the grass. So we don't anticipate mowing, however, my wife does talk about the tarweed being an issue so we might need to do that in the future. We would be doing manure spreading, maintaining the arena, and using the box scraper to maintain our driveway and to build paths (my wife wants to put in a horse obstacle course).

We do not have round bales around here. 100 lb. square bales instead. That is what the pallet forks are for. To both move bales and to also move feeders and other types of horse equipment.

Nothing here indicates need for a Category 2 tractor. I would consider 3,700 pound to 4,500 pound (bare tractor) Category 1 tractors.

If you elect 35-40 horsepower you may or may not want anything but air in rear tires, using Box Blade for ballast.
(I remember Sacramento area as flat. Any change?)

If you elect 45-55 horsepower you will probably want to load rear tires for traction.



PHOTOS: Only air in those tires. You will probably want some type of pasture aerating implement.

 

[Professor Marvel]

Thanks Professor Marvel,



OK, that would be XR4150H...dropping 5 HP and reducing cost by $1k. You believe the Cat 2 would be a detriment?



I wish I could now answer all those questions. Several years ago and neither I nor my wife knew much about tractors (don't know much more now but hoping to learn).

not really a detriment but i see a lot more equipment available in cat 1. And in my opinion the 55 does not require cat 2 duty range. My old ford 5000 definitely needs cat 2 on some implements cause I could cause damage to them if i push them. But I use cat 1 with adapters on stuff like PHD and even bush hog.
I have tore up my 8' land pride HD rear blade and it is cat 2. I have welded big hunks of angle iron lengthwise across it and it hasnt bent since.

like i say though this is just my opinion but I keep up pretty much road in my woods for almost 30 years and am not completely without experience. Whatever you get you will run i into a situation where a different choice tractor would work a little better in a particular application.
I would keep at a cat 1

 

[Tractorable]

Is this going to be a cab or ROPS tractor?

The new Kioti DK10SE tractors are really nice. I would definitely cross shop them, and they come standard with a set of rear remotes. They also have a lever above the three point hitch to move it up/down, something I wish all manufacturers would do.

 

[George2615]

Is this going to be a cab or ROPS tractor?

The new Kioti DK10SE tractors are really nice. I would definitely cross shop them, and they come standard with a set of rear remotes. They also have a lever above the three point hitch to move it up/down, something I wish all manufacturers would do.

The tractor they are looking at comes standard with 3 (not just one) rear remote. It wasn't mentioned but it also comes with the lever to operate the 3pt from the 3 pt area.

Discmen, Jeff has provided some very good info for the OP and the XR4150H would easily perform all the work you have mentioned.

 

[Trillium Farm]

Having had a horse farm, my advice is to go for cat 2. You WILL NOT find farm implements with cat 1 only garden's, most of the equipment for farm work will be either 2 (most) or 3 category.
There is a higher amount of cat 1 because there are more people who use them for gardening and to keep estates, but for farming my experience has been go with Cat 2

 

[discmen]

Thank you guys for all the information. This is why we use the forums, for your extensive knowledge. I'll call the dealer tomorrow and get a new quote on the XR4150H.

Thanks,

- Mark

 

[discmen]

Having had a horse farm, my advice is to go for cat 2. You WILL NOT find farm implements with cat 1 only garden's, most of the equipment for farm work will be either 2 (most) or 3 category.
There is a higher amount of cat 1 because there are more people who use them for gardening and to keep estates, but for farming my experience has been go with Cat 2

At first we thought about farming a portion of the land and were even looking for larger tractors than this. However, I've read (I believe from Jeff) that farming alfalfa would only be cost effective at 80 acres or above. Thus we've really narrowed down the tractor to maintaining the horse ranch and if we ever decide to do row farming in the future, to get an older tractor with higher horsepower.

 

[Professor Marvel]

Thank you guys for all the information. This is why we use the forums, for your extensive knowledge. I'll call the dealer tomorrow and get a new quote on the XR4150H.

Thanks,

- Mark

i would have the tires loaded too while you are ordering for stability and traction. I would think you could get the dealer to include that.
Enjoy your new machine

 

[radios1]

Thank you guys for all the information. This is why we use the forums, for your extensive knowledge. I'll call the dealer tomorrow and get a new quote on the XR4150H.

Thanks,

- Mark

I would ask what is the replacement cost for a starter, and a set of the 6 filters for the tractor!. if they want $1500 for a starter, and $300 for a set of filters, you may want to change brands!. but check for yourself!..

 

[TheMadOne]

At first we thought about farming a portion of the land and were even looking for larger tractors than this. However, I've read (I believe from Jeff) that farming alfalfa would only be cost effective at 80 acres or above. Thus we've really narrowed down the tractor to maintaining the horse ranch and if we ever decide to do row farming in the future, to get an older tractor with higher horsepower.

Eh, that number is both true and false. It's true you would not turn a profit if that was your intention. However, if you get a tractor with enough HP and weight to run a small square baler you can have the option of buying used equipment as it becomes economical to do so. Haying your own ground has its advantages over buying in hay or having it done by a custom operator.

Buying in hay is expensive. Some places charge 12+ dollars for first cut high quality small squares(at least here in PA, I have no idea what California charges for hay). A horse will consume about 100-120 of them per year, depending on bale density, horse size, exercise level, pasture time, etc. So buying small squares for a single horse can cost over 1400 dollars a year.

Custom baling has its own pitfalls, cost and timing. What are you paying the custom operator in? Cash? Most people do a 50/50 split of bales. Which if you can maintain your herd with the 50% of bales remaining, you could sell the other 50% yourself to offset costs of baling. The other problem with custom baling is timing. If the custom operator gets a contract to do your 20 acres and someone else's 200, guess who's going to get priority when the sun is shining and the hay is ready?

While not profitable per say, sometimes doing your own work is the best choice to get the job done right, even at an increased cost.

As far as CAT 1 vs CAT 2, I don't see having a CAT 2 tractor as some major handicap. The weight of the XR4150H is identical to that of the XR4155H. They're the same tractor with different 3pt arms. It's literally a 3$ cost to turn a CAT 1 implement into a CAT 2, and those five HP are not going to cause the CAT 1 implements to crumple like tinfoil. Having CAT 2 as an option might come in handy at an estate sale or auction, where the bidding pool will be limited due to most people not being able to use the implement on the block.

 

[mred2]

I have a XR5150 and handle about 10 horses. about 200 acres, mostly wooded. I feed round bales and purchase all of my hay. Tractor is used to stack and store hay, mow pasture, etc. I have loved mine to this point. I also have a tiller and it handles it without a problem. Cat 2 implements will cost you a little more but are better made on the most part. Cat 1 are a lot easier to find on the used market. I have all of my tires filled. In the paddocks, when it is wet, I need it and 4WD engaged.
I think you will be happy with the 50 or 55. Part of the reason I picked to XR4150 was the frame size and weight for what I wanted to do.