A pump for greywater

[GlennT]

Can anyone suggest a pump that I could use to pump greywater (or graywater, if you prefer) from our automatic washmachine? The washer would pump the greywater into a small holding tank (probably a 55 gallon drum) and then a floatswitch would activate a pump to distribute the greywater to areas in our yard. We live in a rural area so there are no problems with municipal codes, neighbors, runoff into creeks, etc. I have looked in catalogs such as those from Northern Tool and Tractor Supply, visited several hardware stores, and conducted an online search. Some pumps are labeled "For clear water only," a few are intended to move raw sewage with sizable lumps (yuk), and most don't have any designation as to intended use. I suspect that the seals in some pumps would not stand out to the detergents and other ingredients in greywater and I also wonder if there could be problems with the impellers in some pumps clogging. Are there filters or strainers for this purpose? Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

How about just an ordinary sump pump... {it doesn't care the water is dirty} /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[skent]

Our basement is below septic level and we use a "sink pump system". Basically like John said. . . it's a sump pump in a small pit that pumps the drain water up to our septic line. Our pump can actually pass solids to 3/4 inch. (Grainger # 4RK90)

Steve

 

[ronjhall]

Glenn
I have a pedestal type sump pump hooked to a 50-gallon sump barrel. That drains a set of washtub in the basement. The outlet line has a check valve in the vertical line. This stops back feed and also stops the water in vertical line from draining back into barrel. I have had a spare pump setting on the shelf for over 15 years./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Just in case the one in use goes bad./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

 

[Devildog]

Glenn, I work at a water treatment plant, And I agree with what everyone has said. We have manholes that we dewater and all I purchase is the liitle sump pumps that TSC carries, Grainger runs a little more unless you have a company account to purchase through. Also as Ron stated if you dont want it to drain back, you will need a check.
____________________________________________________

2001 B7500 HST 302 Fel R4 Tires, Befco BRB60
Semper Fidelis

 

[patrickg]

Having researched grey/gray water for a while myself, I want to caution you that greywater becomes black water quite quickly, especially in warm temps. Breeds contagion and smells really bad really quick in summer. Do not store it for more than a few hours.

Be advised that disposal of grey water, even wash water has a potential risk. Gonna get indelicate here but for economy of time and space I'll call a spade a spade.

A contagiously sick person (and we don't always know that we are immediately) and in some other instances we shed germs that survive the trip through the washer and if don't thrive at least last to be spread via contact with whatever the water touches. Do you, any pets, visitors, children or ... intend (or might ever just happen) to walk in any area that has recieved surface distributed gray water? If yes then you can spread disease this way. I know this isn't what you wanted to hear but there you are. Expect e. coli to be present in wash water, especialy when washing underwear.

Underground distrubution and dispersal that does not wet the surface directly poses virtually no risk whatsoever. I've read articles by folks who tried to use grey water for vegetable irrigation (except while knowingly sick) but that is like suposing a gun to be unloaded and snapping the trigger, dangerous and foolhearty. You will need pressure to do this unless you place something akin to traditional leech lines.

I had a good series of chats with a civil engineer specializing in modern alternative waste water treatment and disposal for residential, developments, and municipalities. I hired him as a conlsultant. Also he is overseeing a waste water dispersal syustem for a small town aout 6 miles from me. They treat it aerobically and store it. After accumulation they spray it on an 80 acre haying field for irigation. The owner volunteered and certainly profits from the deal. This water, although not crystal clear, is safe to drink. Local sentiments prevent other more cost effective uses.

Lint is your enemy in washer efluent situations. The little stainless steel drain filters that go on the end of the washer drain hose where it sticks into the house drain system (available from Lowes etc.) aren't worth the time to install if they were free. There is a really good filter for protecting septic systems from being "felted" in by non-biodegradable fibers from synthetic materials in clothes and of course would keep your pump and plumbing from cloging up. Don't recall the name or source just now but it was available from the manufacturer to order over the net. I have notes on it somewhere as I intend to use it in my new house (breaking ground later this year or early next).

Have looked into grey water irrigation and caution you regarding filters and distribution systems. Most do not work for long. Some folks are doing real good with sand filters like some pools have. Good for DIY, cheap filter material but require attention and pressure pump. Never found an install and forget system but not for lack of trying.

Oh yeah, root crops aren't so appealing to me with grey water but things like tomatos, beans, okra are fine with a system that does not wet the surface of the dirt or any of the plant above ground.

Haven't really set down and done the calcs but I thought of one way to "pump" grey water that would not clog a pump nor require super duper filtration. Get wash water into a pressure tank (old hot water tank or two or...) by gravity if able (internal pump in washer will work against a small head). After tank is filled close the valve controling the grey water entry and open the valve with a really good backflow preventer that lets water in from your presurized water supply. It will cost you a tank of "good" water to dispose of a tank of "bad" water but you already have the pump and it won't "see" any lint to clog it. If you need extra pressure to drive the grey water dispersal system put a small booster pump in the "good" water line just upstream of the added pressure tank and as it sees no lint it should last a long time as well.

Let us know what you finally settle on.

Patrick

 

[Vermonster]

Yuck!

 

[jimmoore]

Glen, a small amount of chlorine bleach in the washing cycle will kill any "nasties" in the wash water. When I lived outside of town, my wife always used a small amount of bleach in the washwater and it wound up killing all the microbes in the septic tank and it quit working properly. If the bleach would sterilize A SEPTIC TANK it should kill anyother type of germs!

jim

 

[patrickg]

Michael (AKA Vermonster), Don't hold back man, tell us how you really feel! Keeping it all bottled up inside isn't healthy.

By the way, Y U C K !! was my general impression of most grey water systems after doing some serious investigating. Sounded much simpler and desirable when I didn't know much about it, just thinking recycle the water put it to good use, my litle part of save the planet, etc. After serious research, beyond the "hucksters" selling "systems" (which don't work trouble free very long, as a rule) I became convinced there were more angles to consider than a snooker tournement. I will still do something better than just putting it "somewhere simple" and praying for good luck. I'm sure there will be a trade off that is low maint "enough" and conservative "enough" and safe "enough", I just haven't decided what it is yet.

A neighbor to my leasehold in Baja Cal, Mex near San Felipe (solar electric community, no grid power or running water) was to all appearances a practical man, retired from the concrete contracting business, 2-3 concrete pump patents, neat old guy. Put in a fairly expensive (supposedly good engineered) grey water irrigation system in nearly pure sandy soil (easiest). All potable water is trucked in as area averages 3 inches of rainfall per year so he was motivated to recycle his grey water for the landscaping (various cacti, Palo Verde, elephant trees, pretty deserty stuff, nearly excellent xeroscape material but would do oh so much better with a bit more water). Clogged more than it worked, frustrated him no end. He abandoned it after much difficulty and just used drinking water from his under ground 2,400 gal tank, just had more frequent water deliveries.

He was all bubbly like a kid opening Christmas presents after he first got it in the ground and working with the timers and all. Went from smiley face to Mr. Yuck fairly quickly as reality set in. Tried for months to make a go of it, but just wasn't in the cards.

Still, I'll give something a try, not willing to give up easily. Probably a good candidate for save the planet water savings would be a housing development where all houses could plumb their greywater to one large treatment facility separate from black water and save a lot that way with economy of scale OR lose a little on each gallon and make it up in volume. <=== supposed to be funny.

Patrick (love to hear of any long term successes that don't carry a huge health risk.)

 

[Phred]

Guys,

I also looked at grey water systems. Came to basically the same conclusion; yuk.

However, one approach that might have merit would be to use UV to sterilize the grey water output. Basicallly, run all your grey water through a strong UV source. Several, are avilable comercially. You could then use it to water a hay field, etc.. Only down side is that it would require power.

No way would I use it for the garden or lawn.

Fred

 

[GlennT]

As so often in the past, I'm overwhelmed by the amount of information that comes out in this forum. Thanks so much. I've printed out the responses so I can refer back to them. By the way, I'm installing a rainwater collection system at the moment. We will have a 1,000 gallon ferrocement tank (actually a septic tank) at each end of the house and and two more 1,000 gallon tanks by two large garages (sheds) in different locations. We plan to monitor our usage of the rainwater from these tanks for a year or so and then have a large ferrocement tank built--probably with a capacity of 20,000 gallons or so. Our 1,000 gallon tanks will serve as catch basins and they will pump into the large tank. Thanks again for the information; it really is appreciated.

 

[TerryinMD]

What are you going to do with the stored water? We have homes in our area that still collect rain water for daily use. What they typically do is have a main collector that has a trap on it. When it begins to rain, you divert the water away from the storage system for the first few minutes of the rain. This water has most of the contaminents and dirt. Once the roof, gutters, and downspouts are "clean", you let the water drain into your storage tanks.

Terry

 

[Bird]

Glenn, how much rain do you get in a year? I don't think I'd get enough rain to fill those tanks in 10 years, even if I didn't use any in the meantime./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

 

[DocHeb]

Good article in this months "Fine Homebuilding" (November 2001, #142) about using rainwater runoff for entire house water with no well or backup system. The author uses cisterns of 40,000 gal or more (water use for family of four for 10 months) and sediment filters with UV purification. It is an interesting article, but seems like a lot of effort. I think we're spoiled in the Great Lakes area since we don't think about our water supplies very often - maybe we should.

 

[CGranat]

My house covers about 3000 square feet of land (house, garage, and porch). Each inch of rain would yield 250 (=3000/12) cubic feet of water. There are about 7.5 gallons of water in one cubic foot so, this would be 1875 (=250*7.5) gallons! We get about 40 inches of precipitation here in Indianapolis each year. That makes 75,000 gallons in one year. I realize that this is the amount of water that falls; what you could collect and store may be considerably less. You got my curiosity up and I had to figure out what kind of numbers we’re talking about.
Chris

 

[Chillimau]

GlennT,

Check out the current issue of Fine Homebuilding. They have an article on rain water collection. Haven't had time to read it yet, but looks like they collect, filter and use the rainwater as drinking water.

Gary

 

[Chillimau]

Sorry about that, I just saw the other reference to Fine homebuilding.

What are anybody's experience with an aerobic septic system?

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>What are anybody's experience with an aerobic septic system?</font color=blue>

Mine is about 4.5 years old now; only way to go as far as I'm concerned in this clay that does not perk well at all. There have been some minor changes in the design, but you can see basically what I have at http://www.hydro-action.com

Bird

 

[GlennT]

In our part of Texas (the Hill Country) we average a little over 30 inches per year (the local Chamber of Commerce claims 32+). We have 3,108 square feet of roof on the house, 1,080 square feet on a separate garage, and 1,280 square feet on a shed. Our house is L-shaped and part of the roof does not easily lend itself to rainwater collection (about 669 square feet). Figuring 4,400 square feet of metal roof suitable for rainwater collection and an annual average of 30.1 inches of rain, that should result in an annual total of 59,498 gallons of rainwater collected. This assumes an efficiency rate of 70%; in other words, 30% of this water is lost through roof washers, overflowing the gutters during a hard rain, etc. One inch of rain on one square foot of roof results in .6233 of a gallon of water. The formula to use is as follows: the number of square feet multiplied by the number of inches of rain multiplied by 600 (623.3 rounded off) and divided by 1,000. This figure is then multiplied by .70 to take into consideration the 30% loss. I plan to use roof washers on all roofs. According to sources I've consulted (the Internet and authorities at renewable energy workshops I've attended), rain washers should accomodate one gallon of water for every 100 square feet of roof. Much of this isn't high tech, but it sure takes a lot of time to locate information, make comparisons, and arrive at a reasonable design for a system.

 

[Bird]

Glenn, I hadn't done any calculations when I said that, and of course, I was just thinking of my little house, 1420 sq. ft. and not thinking about the shop, 2400 sq. ft., or the barn, maybe 1000 sq. ft. And our "average annual" rainfall is likely just a very little bit more than yours; the problem is that it all comes in the winter and early spring and not enough in the summer. I'm not sure exactly what the long term average is, but since I've kept track of it here at the house I do know that my average for the past 6 years has been 35.63". That's from a low of 20.7 in '99 to a high of 42.91 in '98 if you go just by the calendar year.

Bird