863 Fuel pickup

[mogman]

I have a bad fuel pickup in the tank on my 863 (if I pressure up the tank with a small amount of air only air comes out of the fuel line with a nearly full tank) I have seen several references to this but can someone tell me where to "go in" to look for the 90 degree fitting?? Man this thing is about 25lb of crap stuffed into a 2lb bag!!
Craig

 

[mogman]

Well things are not looking good, after dark I can clearly see the hoses looking through the removed "door" on the right side of the machine. It looks like it would be next to impossible to get in there without pulling the engine. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif

 

[franklinute]

How about checking the fuel line and strainer in the tank. I have pulled the fuel line out of a Bobcat tank by removing the fuel cap and using a coat hanger to snag the fuel line and carefully pull the line out just to inspect the intake end. The intake end usually has a strainer which gets clogged. Also check the condition of the fuel line. Over time it can deteriorate and collapse closing the line and not getting fuel thru. With the intake line out now you can clear the line using compressed air by removing a connection down the fuel system. If there is trash in your tank you can shorten the intake line a little to keep it from picking up more trash.
The 90 fitting you are talking about is at the top of the tank in the middle. Sometimes there is a 90 fitting attatched to the shut off valve. Removing the tanks to clean out is a pretty good job.

 

[mogman]

It is pretty obvious the pickup tube has dropped off of the 90, if I blow air into the tank filler neck with it nearly full the air has no problem blowing out of the fuel line at the primer bulb, it would not do this if it was plugged and if the pickup was there fuel would blow out, after looking over the engine removal procedure (read bites the BIG one) I am going to have to try to access this through the side cover.
I looks like after removing the tire and one of the hydraulic fittings I might be able to get to it, and I might be able to unbolt the engine/pump mounts and lift the engine/pump a little. Any way you look at it this was piss poor engineering for sure. At least it is the near and not the far (return) fitting!! And to think I thought I was getting over by buying a machine (auction) with a completely full fuel tank LOL and then cry
Craig

 

[glennkangiser]

I had the same problem on my 963 and managed to pull the line up through the grommet accessed from under the seat with the cab up.

The grommet came out with it and was rough to get back in. My fuel line was bad - dropped into the tank - got a new flex rubber line from a Stihl chain saw shop and made a new 90 degree pickup from steel tubing - no more problems.

The 90 on mine that I am referring to is used as a weight to keep the rubber line on the bottom - ID'd it from the parts catalog.

 

[mogman]

Well the 863's pickup is directly under the engine and I just could not work through the small access I had, SO it sat until I came up with this piece of southern ingenuity, I cut the fuel fill pipe, found a piece of muffler pipe pounded the center flat so the 1/4 pipe bulkhead connector would fit flush on the pipe. On the inside there is a section of nylon 3/8 tubing attached to the bulkhead connector with a correct 90deg compression fitting, on the outside is a 5/16 hose barb and bingo bango we are back in business

 

[daveryder]

@ mogman:

that's ingenious :thumbsup:

 

[ronjea42]

Hi Mogman, This fuel problem has been a mind bending experience for me this week. Your solution seems to be a great answer to this problem. I have an 873 which I hope is about the same as an 863. I will try this fix this week. Did you put any kind of filter or screen on the end of the hose inside the tank? Thanks, Ron....

 

[jluvlk]

there is a hydraulic line and fitting screwed into hydro pump. remove the vertical line first, then unscrew the fitting into pump. reach in and wipe all debris away from the pickup line area. pull the line up and out the side opening. make sure the tire has been removed for plenty of room. at this point, you should be able to easily complete the job.

Well things are not looking good, after dark I can clearly see the hoses looking through the removed "door" on the right side of the machine. It looks like it would be next to impossible to get in there without pulling the engine. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif

 

[jluvlk]

Hi Mogman, This fuel problem has been a mind bending experience for me this week. Your solution seems to be a great answer to this problem. I have an 873 which I hope is about the same as an 863. I will try this fix this week. Did you put any kind of filter or screen on the end of the hose inside the tank? Thanks, Ron....

you must install a filter combo check valve at the end of the tube before you push the tube back down into the top of the tank

 

[EarthGuys]

We also have an 863 with a bad fuel pickup in the tank (it seems). Bulb collapses and stays collapsed.
Cab up = no access to the hose. Am running off a pony tank just to get out of remote area BUT it is somehow going through a huge amount of fuel, and no obvious leak spot.
Is there a RETURN in the fuel system dumping some of the pony tank (attached to rear cover in a safe way) fuel back into the tank - seems it is increasing perhaps on the gauge.
MAIN QUESTION is how to access/replace or eliminate the pickup tube filter. Thanks, Rob

 

[EarthGuys]

Proven - There is definitely fuel returning to the tank when running off the pony tank. Worked. Got us out of a tight situation, got (most of) the work done, and now back to needing to access/replace the clogged pickup in the tank.
Would like to simply externalize that filter, and the check valve for that matter. Has anyone done that, since the maintainece engineering is terribly flawed?

 

[SSdoxie]

The fuel pickup line and the excess fuel return lines go into the top of the tank, look just behind the pump assembly and in front of the engine. These lines go through 90 degree barbed fittings with a rubber bushing around them that expands into the tank when fitting is pushed in. Pull up with a twisting motion to remove the fitting and bushing. Depending an on age of the 863, some did have a screen attached to bottom of the pickup tube but later models did not. The screen was removed after Duetz started putting a screen in the diaphragm lift pump.
Get too much dirt/debris in the tank and the 90 degree fitting can plug up.

 

[REV DUP]

We also have an 863 with a bad fuel pickup in the tank (it seems). Bulb collapses and stays collapsed.
Cab up = no access to the hose. Am running off a pony tank just to get out of remote area BUT it is somehow going through a huge amount of fuel, and no obvious leak spot.
Is there a RETURN in the fuel system dumping some of the pony tank (attached to rear cover in a safe way) fuel back into the tank - seems it is increasing perhaps on the gauge.
MAIN QUESTION is how to access/replace or eliminate the pickup tube filter. Thanks, Rob

First the good news: The line can be replace without removing the engine. Now the bad news: It is almost impossible. It took me 3 hrs and if my forearm had been a 1/4" larger I probably would have had to find someone with thinner arms. Start by removing R rear wheel and access plate and look in there. You may not see the line as it may be under 2" of oil and dirt gunk. Pressure wash and scrap & clean until you can see the line. Make sure there is no dirt & gunk around the grommet. If you can twist it out, good. I had to make a pry tool out of 1/4" x 3/4" bar stock with a v notch in the end and then use a hammer to force it out. If you are getting too much air in the fuel, like mine, the pickup tube is broken off and laying in the tank. I replaced mine with the standard Bobcat replacement kit. If the primer bulb is collapsing then the pickup is getting plugged up like mine is doing now. I was able get the bulb working by repeated squeezing which somehow cleared the pickup screen until I could pump up fuel and finish the job. You might have to repeat that every 10 minutes or so. Don't forget to change your fuel filter. When you take it off shake it upside down and see how much junk you get out. Sometimes there is so much that it's amazing that the engine ran at all. Hope this helps someone.

 

[davemhughes]

I have to do this sometime soon myself.........this thread was very informative. I hope I can get it done with out removing the engine.

 

[Barnbuilder]

The pick up on my A300 gets plugged frequently. I pull the line loose from the primer bulb. Blow back through the line to dislodge debris off the pick up. Reattach the fuel line and squeeze the primer bulb a few times. Good to go.

 

[REV DUP]

I have to do this sometime soon myself.........this thread was very informative. I hope I can get it done with out removing the engine.

Come-on Dave you can do it. I'm glad this thread is still active. I have some more info. After I replaced the fuel pickup and changed the filter it kept plugging up in the tank. I tried some flushing and other stuff with little luck so I pulled the pickup again and eliminated the screen which was cluttered with what look like pieces of the old fuel pickup line which had fallen off earlier. I then bought a couple of those cheap in line filters (Fram
G15) that my fuel line would fit on with clamps and installed it in the engine compartment before the primer bulb and with enough extra fuel line that I could pull it out for easy access. The first one lasted 15 minutes so then I changed it to the other new one and took first one, filled it with fuel oil, shook it a lot, poured out the fuel (lots of crap came out) and I repeated this action until I felt it was clear enough to blow some air through both ways and then repeated the procceedure again. This time I got a half hour before it plugged. Wear nitrile gloves to keep the fuel oil out of your body. Months later now I can run 2 to 3 hours before changing filters and it is now rapidly improving. I probably did the process 20 times and my main filter is still ok. I got the idea from my Case 580 K which uses one of those small filters for a pre-primary down by the frame before the fuel goes to the other primary and the secondary filters. It's all do-able without pulling the engine. I may keep the cheap filter in and my drainable primary should live forever. Hope this helps.

 

[kochevnik]

Stole Mogman's idea for my T300- seems to work great. Had a local shop do it for $70, cut the fuel inlet line, just ran 1/4 inch fuel line
info the tank. Seemed to work fine.

 

[tonyq60]

Sounds like fuel conditioning needed.

Get a spin on filter kit from someplace and if you have a portable tank it may have one.

Get hoses to allow a pump to draw fuel from tank through filter and back to tank.

If tank has drain then just park so drain is lowest point then drain and clean.

Use leaf blower and shop vac hose to connect to fill pipe to pressurize and blow out chunks.

Use air compressor with air hose into tank to stir it up.

Good luck

 

[JJZ 109]

Sounds like fuel conditioning needed.

Get a spin on filter kit from someplace and if you have a portable tank it may have one.

Get hoses to allow a pump to draw fuel from tank through filter and back to tank.

If tank has drain then just park so drain is lowest point then drain and clean.

Use leaf blower and shop vac hose to connect to fill pipe to pressurize and blow out chunks.

Use air compressor with air hose into tank to stir it up.

Good luck

Tony, you do know that so far you've replied to a 2 year old post and a 7 year old post. Each has a date on it. Might want to check that out before commenting on long resolved or long forgotten issues.