7k trailer weight

[cperky]

I have an 18' tandem 7k metal bed car hauler(bumper hitch). If I were to be pulled over by law enforcement and they were to check my weight would I be over if:

I have a total of 7500 lbs trailer+cargo but the weight was distributed so that 7k was on the axle and 500 on the tounge/tow vehicle rear?

Thanks,
Chris

 

[JB4310]

We were talking about that same situation not long ago, I don't know if we came to a conclusion, if they weighed the axles it would not be over, but if the inspector had half a brain he would know you have weight on the tongue, so I don't know if they would then try and weigh the jack stand?
Some one mentioned that on goose neck trailers the combined axle weight rating is less than the trailers GVW, cause they figure the G-necks have a higher percentage of weight on the pin.
JB,

 

[john_bud]

The solid 100% answer is, probably!

If you are pulled over and he pulls out the scales and the 4 tires come in at 7000, you are probably toast. Why?

1) The load would need to be evenly distributed across the 2 axles. 3500 # each per the spec on the axles. You would most likely be nabbed here.

2) The load would need to be evenly distributed between the 2 tires on each axle and not exceed the load cap of the rim or tires

3) The cop would probably put his 5th scale under the tongue.



Now if you have the load secured in a neat and professional manor with quality chain & binders and you are polite - you may walk. In some cases you could be looking at a stack of tickets if they decide you are commercial and don't have USDOT numbers, inspections, com insurance, triangles. fire ext, etc etc etc.

I've had the DOT enforcer get up right on my bumper and inspect my binders at 55 mph. It's why I use chain and ratchet binders! If he feels comfy, I feel comfy (because it means its being done safely!).

 

[firedog]

Well I guess I'll cast the disenting vote here. (this is based on my understanding of the regs & driving a rig. Your experiences may vary)
The weight rating of the trailer is based on the axle ratings not the opposite. In other words, the 7K rating is a number generated by the axle load capacity not a set in stone number for the overall trailer.
I have never been asked to separate the trailer from the truck or even seen a calulation done with that respect. I've rolled thru weigh stations, both POE and portable and this is the way it's gone every time.
the front tractor axles first, then the rear tractor tandems, and then the trailer tandems. (if portables are used then each axle at a time).
They look for overweight axles (or axle sets) and overall weight. If I'm over the axle rating; I'm busted, or if I'm over my registered weight; I'm busted.

If say your weight is distributed so that each trailer axle weighs 3400 lbs, but the rear truck axle is over then you'll probably get cited. (but on a good day they just might let you redistribute your weight to try and bring it down.)
If your under on all your weights, you're good to go.

Some years ago, a buddy of mine rolled thru a POE scale 6K over max (80K) and was able to convince them that it was due to ice buildup on the pipe he was hauling. They bought it and gave him a hour to bust the ice loose and re-weigh.

 

[firedog]

I guess the other thing is, that if you have to jockey your weight around to keep the axles under the limit, then you probably need a bigger setup or a smaller load.

 

[Soundguy]

I'd like to add to the probably good info already displayed here.. is that if you are not a comercial driver hauling a comercial load.. and IF your load looks safe, safely tied down, all lamps working, and tag in place and lit.. tires looking good.. plenty of securely fitting load binders or straps or whatever.. and the truck ain't bouncing downt he highway, or fishtailing.. or your rear isn't squatted to 2" of the ground.. and you are not speeding... DOT probably ain't gonna look you over much past that.. It's hard to 'eyeball' 500# overweight on a rig..

I just made a 2300 mile round trip run to texas from florida... went thru missippi, alabama, lousiana into and out of texas.. etc.

passed plenty of weight scales. Some were the drive thru to the right kind.. some had a camera setup and told you if you could bypass the scale.

I'm not sure if i was suposed to drive thru the scales or not.. but i didn't see any other pickup trucks with trailers hitting them.. so i didn't.. I was hauling a 16' car hauler and an old ford tractor with a dismantled loader frame tucked under it. I must have probably been right at max weight for the trailer ( but way under for the truck combined )..

Saw plenty of DOT.. some were parked along the road zipping in and getting semi's dodging scales.. had them pass me before.. and passed plenty of scales that had a row of cars waiting outside.. never got a second glance... my 'bet' is that they don't scrutinize non comercial vehicles that look fairly safe and legal.. that's just an opinion... if we have any LEO's here.. lets see what they say..

soundguy

 

[firedog]

.......and you are not speeding.....

.......into and out of texas.......

must of been speeding .........I didn't even see you

 

[cperky]

Thanks for the replies and input. I have tried to search my state dot website but I have a hard time getting through all the mumbo jumbo. I hope I don't find out from first hand experience

Chris

 

[Soundguy]

must of been speeding .........I didn't even see you

I-10 to houston.. then seally, then north.. on?? ( 35 or 36.. ).. and then back again.

No speeding.. but had 2 drivers so we drove straight thru.. except for a small rest stop and to wait for the sun to come up a lil to load the tractor.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Thanks for the replies and input. I have tried to search my state dot website but I have a hard time getting through all the mumbo jumbo. I hope I don't find out from first hand experience

Chris

Gov't websites aren't actually designed to help you... same with most of the gov't programs..

soundguy

 

[firemanpat2910]

[QUOTE .........I didn't even see you [/QUOTE]

I didnt see him either and if he took 10 trough Tallahassee he was within a few miles of me.

 

[Rara Avis]

Thanks for the replies and input. I have tried to search my state dot website but I have a hard time getting through all the mumbo jumbo. I hope I don't find out from first hand experience

Chris

Starting January most trailers will be TAXABLE as well as horse feed unless you have a TN "farmer" number. This will surprise a lot of folks as basically trailers and feed have all been non taxable. The affidavit you used to sign is no longer valid. In order to get a number you have to prove that you are a "farmer."

For more clarification the TN dept of Rev site has an entire section devoted to the new rule changes and how to apply.


The write up on the new law is Tennessee Department of Revenue Farmers, Timber Harvesters, Nurserymen Sales Tax Exemption.
The application to file is http://state.tn.us/revenue/forms/sales/f1308401.pdf.

The application tells what you have to do to prove you farm or harvest timber, you have to follow what is below, plus other criteria on the application, since we don't farm or sell/lease that would leave us out. lol Applicant must meet at least one of the following criteria for agricultural exemption. (Check all boxes that apply.)
The owner or lessee of agricultural land from which $1,000 or more of agricultural products were produced or sold during the year,including payments from government sources. (Provide proof of government payments and/or copies of tax returns reflect-ing income information.)
In the business of providing for-hire custom agricultural services for the plowing, planting, harvesting, growing, raising, or processing ofagricultural products or for the maintenance of agricultural land. (Provide copies of Form 1099.)

 

[JDeereman]

The solid 100% answer is, probably!

If you are pulled over and he pulls out the scales and the 4 tires come in at 7000, you are probably toast. Why?

1) The load would need to be evenly distributed across the 2 axles. 3500 # each per the spec on the axles. You would most likely be nabbed here.

2) The load would need to be evenly distributed between the 2 tires on each axle and not exceed the load cap of the rim or tires

3) The cop would probably put his 5th scale under the tongue.



Now if you have the load secured in a neat and professional manor with quality chain & binders and you are polite - you may walk. In some cases you could be looking at a stack of tickets if they decide you are commercial and don't have USDOT numbers, inspections, com insurance, triangles. fire ext, etc etc etc.

I've had the DOT enforcer get up right on my bumper and inspect my binders at 55 mph. It's why I use chain and ratchet binders! If he feels comfy, I feel comfy (because it means its being done safely!).

Two questions:
1. Don't most twin axle trailers ride on a suspension setup that equalizes load 50/50 between the two axles?
2. Does any state allow you to register a trailer one increment (1K) over gvwr to account for tongue load &/or scale error? seems that would at least fix half the legal threat (that of running marginally over registered weight as scaled).

Also I keep hearing talk about a 5% grace on scaled weight to account for scale accuracy or error. Is this fact or myth?

Theo

 

[Soundguy]

I didnt see him either and if he took 10 trough Tallahassee he was within a few miles of me.

Iffn I go thru again.. and am not low on time for the trip..I'll email ya and we can have coffee / breakfast or something.

soundguy

 

[cperky]

Starting January most trailers will be TAXABLE as well as horse feed unless you have a TN "farmer" number. This will surprise a lot of folks as basically trailers and feed have all been non taxable. The affidavit you used to sign is no longer valid. In order to get a number you have to prove that you are a "farmer."

For more clarification the TN dept of Rev site has an entire section devoted to the new rule changes and how to apply.


The write up on the new law is Tennessee Department of Revenue Farmers, Timber Harvesters, Nurserymen Sales Tax Exemption.
The application to file is http://state.tn.us/revenue/forms/sales/f1308401.pdf.

The application tells what you have to do to prove you farm or harvest timber, you have to follow what is below, plus other criteria on the application, since we don't farm or sell/lease that would leave us out. lol Applicant must meet at least one of the following criteria for agricultural exemption. (Check all boxes that apply.)
The owner or lessee of agricultural land from which $1,000 or more of agricultural products were produced or sold during the year,including payments from government sources. (Provide proof of government payments and/or copies of tax returns reflect-ing income information.)
In the business of providing for-hire custom agricultural services for the plowing, planting, harvesting, growing, raising, or processing ofagricultural products or for the maintenance of agricultural land. (Provide copies of Form 1099.)

Thanks for the info about the sales tax and farm exempt number. I have the farm number but I also have a small electrical buisness where I install electricity for barns and outbuildings. I bought my trailer a month ago and even with my farm number I had to register (semi tag) and pay sales tax because if I pull my trailer with my utlity truck that has 16K commercial tags then it is considered commercial which lead to a commercial insurance policy ect... I paid $1850 for the trailer then about $221 tax title and registration

I am looking at small tractors to use around the house but also easy to cary to the jobsite when necessary among other uses for the trailer.

 

[firedog]

Also I keep hearing talk about a 5% grace on scaled weight to account for scale accuracy or error.

I don't know about the accuracy of the portable scales, but never ever tell the officer at the POE (port of entry) their scales are wrong. You just might be sitting there a few hours (or days???)

been there, done that..................

 

[davey4000]

I manage a fleet of over 200 pickup trucks with most of them towing trailers at one time or another. We've been busted for just about everything in the book, but I've never heard of the DOT weighing individual axles. Maybe they do, but it hasn't come up. We go by the total combined GVWR of the truck and trailer, and have never had a problem unless we exceeded it. Most of our violations come from lights, brakes and load securement.

 

[unioncreek]

When I built my 16 foot care trailer with 3500 pound axles they didn't even ask what GVW I wanted it rated at. My registration doesn't list anything about a GVW. Just wonder what they will do if I'm ever stopped because of a load I'm carrying.


Bobg

 

[davey4000]

I think the regulations regarding homemade trailers vary from state to state. To get it registered some states only require that you have a notarized affidavit stating who the trailer was made by, and that it is free from all encumbrances, and that all the materials used to construct it are paid for. Other states require that in addition to that an inspection be performed by the DMV who will assign a VIN to it.

 

[txslowpoke]

The best advice I can give--
If this is your personal truck/trailer/ equipment your hauling- you need to stay in the weight rating on your registration for truck and trailer. Meaning -- say you have 3/4 ton truck with a GVR of 8800lbs and a trailer with GVR of 7500lbs, add the 2 up and thats your GCWR you are allowed. That said, you have axle ratings to comply with- meaning look at your brand of truck(ford,chevy,dodge,etc) and see what the front and rear axles are rated at max. Same for your trailer I.E 2-3500 lb axles, so you are allowed a total of 7k on those 2 axles. Now this does not mean 7k pay load, you have to take into account the empty weight of trailer. Its best to axle out your truck and trailer(empty) on a scale. That will give you the weight you can carry--- so to speak! In Texas we can add weight to registration tags on trucks, example 1 ton dually can be registered for a GVR of 16k or more if you want to pay the $$( thats the truck it self) then you add the trailer capacity into the GCVWR. ( I do this on a 1ton pulling a 40' G/N registered for 20k-gives a 36 gross-commercial use)
It all plays into to the type of trailer you are pulling 7k utillity bumper pull to a 30k G/N. You just have to keep the axle weights correct. The other way they(DOT/Cops) can get you is by tire rating/ hitchrating/ball rating/safety chain rating/ and breakawy switch.. If you are buying cheapo tires with a Load range of less than E for 3/4 ton up your asking for ticket, cuz a weight cop will look. Maybe not all the time, but 1 time will get ya.
If your hauling for commercial or as the DOT likes to put it"in furthurence of business" something like that. That changes the game totally. If you cross state lines to carry equipment to and from jobs you are getting paid for. The max weight is 10,001 lbs anything over that you have to register with USDOT, provide Public Liabilty Insurance of atleast 750k(if memory serves me correct) If its HAZMAT (which is determined by the RQ) there is no thresh hold on weight and requires 5million insurance.
Now if you are carrying non hazmat in business related and only hauling it in your home state you need to check your home state DOT requirements. Example- Texas anything over 26k(GCWR<GVR) is required to register with TXDOT, (unless you fall under the Agriculture exemption-farmers,ranchers- which I believe is 54k). Keep in mind if we travel across state lines that thresh hold drops to 10,001 k-USDOT

Clear as mud I am sure..