when my engine is off, i don't think i can spin the pto by hand in either the engaged or disengaged/braked position, only in the middle position.
4300 PTO won't disengage.
- Thread starter billt102
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when my engine is off, i don't think i can spin the pto by hand in either the engaged or disengaged/braked position, only in the middle position.
beenthere
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Prolly there had to be a CA option, either on or off, no neutral.
I'll get a pic of the three symbols on mine. Clearly three positions. And clearly a neutral, free spinning, which I use often to avoid the wear of braking. But braking is good when wanting to shut off quickly, and not spin down.
I'll get a pic of the three symbols on mine. Clearly three positions. And clearly a neutral, free spinning, which I use often to avoid the wear of braking. But braking is good when wanting to shut off quickly, and not spin down.
i haven't had a chance to actually USE my pto yet...need an extension since all of my pto shafts are too short for this tractor...but i did a test on my grandfather's brush hog.
from rear position (off/braked) to center (neutral?) the shaft had a small surge...tried to turn but couldn't. from center to forward (engaged), it starts up. when moved from forward to center, it still spins but has no power...begins to slow (like pushing clutch on a non-live pto tractor). center to rear, it stops with the brake.
i'd just assume go to center until it coasts to a stop when possible...seems it would be rough on the brake going from engaged to brake while the thing is still spinning fast.
from rear position (off/braked) to center (neutral?) the shaft had a small surge...tried to turn but couldn't. from center to forward (engaged), it starts up. when moved from forward to center, it still spins but has no power...begins to slow (like pushing clutch on a non-live pto tractor). center to rear, it stops with the brake.
i'd just assume go to center until it coasts to a stop when possible...seems it would be rough on the brake going from engaged to brake while the thing is still spinning fast.
dfkrug
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That is why so many have failed.
All I can say is that I have the latest Tech Manual and parts PDFs from
JohnDeere, and there is nothing in either to indicate there is supposed to
be a neutral option. I operated mine many times with the top off to see
how it was supposed to operate. I still don't like it. If you can disengage
the PTO without jambing the brake on, that's a good thing. If I get the
last 4300 at the rental center, I am considering eliminating the brake
entirely. It is unnecessary and causes too many problems.
I should have taken a video when I had mine open.....
when i get mt pto extension, i will test it out further and let you know what is happening. i agree that is seems that some (most?) don't have a neutral position...since the diagrams/pics in any of the manuals don't seem to indicate it, not even in the pictures of the pto lever. but, as beenthere also states, there seems to be three definite positions of our pto levers.
beenthere
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mine has a different picture in the center. same one that dfkrug had in the pic he found. i will get a pic of it as soon as i remember to take the camera out there! yours seems to depict a neutral better than mine tho. i have a power reverser tranny, which do you have? if i recall, dfkrug has a hydro.
in the meantime....i did a small test. engine off: pto lever in braked/off....shaft turns maybe 90 degrees by hand. pto lever to engaged, can't turn at all. pto lever to center, shaft turns freely. i hooked one half of my mower pto shaft on to use as a crank.
when my extension gets here, i will do some testing under power.
in the meantime....i did a small test. engine off: pto lever in braked/off....shaft turns maybe 90 degrees by hand. pto lever to engaged, can't turn at all. pto lever to center, shaft turns freely. i hooked one half of my mower pto shaft on to use as a crank.
when my extension gets here, i will do some testing under power.
arrabil
Veteran Member
I just went out and tried mine. 4200 HST. I bought that sticker in 2008 so I don't remember what was there before.
On, Off, and an obvious detent in the middle for free-spinning. And I mean obvious. The lever stops a little before the middle and you have to apply a little extra force to get it to go to on. On the way back to off the same thing happens.
On, Off, and an obvious detent in the middle for free-spinning. And I mean obvious. The lever stops a little before the middle and you have to apply a little extra force to get it to go to on. On the way back to off the same thing happens.
Attachments
arrabil
Veteran Member
Searching through the tech manual reveals some interesting tidbits:
4-24: voltage must be present at the following components with the key switch in the
RUN ("ON") position, transmission in NEUTRAL, PTO(s) in NEUTRAL, park brake ENGAGED, and operator NOT ON seat:
4-40: Operating Conditions (Running Tractor):
• Key switch must be in the RUN position.
• Operator ON seat
• PTO DISENGAGED
• Park brake ENGAGED
Operator can leave seat. (See "ENGINE SHUTOFF
CIRCUIT OPERATION")
• PTO can be ENGAGED
4-58: Test Conditions:
• X6 to control panel disconnected
• Key switch in RUN position, engine OFF
• PTO in NEUTRAL
4-138: Operating Conditions (Starting Tractor):
• Key switch must be in the START position.
• Operator ON seat
• PTO in NEUTRAL
• Transmission in NEUTRAL
So they clearly make a distinction between the three positions. I don't have an electronic copy of the operations manual and I don't want to do a "find" by hand.
4-24: voltage must be present at the following components with the key switch in the
RUN ("ON") position, transmission in NEUTRAL, PTO(s) in NEUTRAL, park brake ENGAGED, and operator NOT ON seat:
4-40: Operating Conditions (Running Tractor):
• Key switch must be in the RUN position.
• Operator ON seat
• PTO DISENGAGED
• Park brake ENGAGED
Operator can leave seat. (See "ENGINE SHUTOFF
CIRCUIT OPERATION")
• PTO can be ENGAGED
4-58: Test Conditions:
• X6 to control panel disconnected
• Key switch in RUN position, engine OFF
• PTO in NEUTRAL
4-138: Operating Conditions (Starting Tractor):
• Key switch must be in the START position.
• Operator ON seat
• PTO in NEUTRAL
• Transmission in NEUTRAL
So they clearly make a distinction between the three positions. I don't have an electronic copy of the operations manual and I don't want to do a "find" by hand.
arrabil
Veteran Member
It does say in the manual to engage the PTO at low RPMs and then ramp them up after everything is spinning. And it says to go down to low RPMs to disengage too.
those are the same graphics as on mine, arrabil.
i did a scan thru the pdf manual, and there is certainly many diagnostic tests that require the pto to be either engaged, disengaged, or in neutral.
section 8-66 - pto theory of operation...seems to indicate only on or off...and that the pto should turn slightly when 'braked' to align attachments (which mine does):
A locking tab on the outside of the brake housing allows the PTO drive shaft to rotate approximately 330°, which, in turn allows the PTO stub shaft to rotate approximately 65° to aid in aligning the splines of attachment driveshaft during hook-up.
seems like alot of discrepancy in the documents and labeling of the pto.
i did a scan thru the pdf manual, and there is certainly many diagnostic tests that require the pto to be either engaged, disengaged, or in neutral.
section 8-66 - pto theory of operation...seems to indicate only on or off...and that the pto should turn slightly when 'braked' to align attachments (which mine does):
A locking tab on the outside of the brake housing allows the PTO drive shaft to rotate approximately 330°, which, in turn allows the PTO stub shaft to rotate approximately 65° to aid in aligning the splines of attachment driveshaft during hook-up.
seems like alot of discrepancy in the documents and labeling of the pto.
Last edited:
arrabil
Veteran Member
Defed, thats the "tractor taking it in the rear" hieroglyphic on ours I'm afraid. The options seem to be sit on it, or sit on it and rotate. I really wish I'd have never seen that sticker.
dfkrug
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Interesting!
Although the different trannies offered for the 4300 have different parts
pages for the PTO in the parts book, I can not see any differences. I
compared part numbers for a few key PTO parts and they are all the same.
PDF reader does not let me view the same doc side-by-side in different
windows, so my comparo is limited.
Finally, I went to the label part of the parts book and your label is not in
there, even for the European versions. The only label is the one with
the tractor pic with the rear end arrow.
dfkrug
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Good idea. The electrical service sections are full of these inconsistencies. I
had not looked there.
I searched my PDF version of the OPs manual and all references to the
rear PTO use the designations "engaged/ON", or "disengaged/OFF". I
searched for all "neutral" references and none had to do with the PTO.
OP
billt102
New member
Defed, thats the "tractor taking it in the rear" hieroglyphic on ours I'm afraid. The options seem to be sit on it, or sit on it and rotate. I really wish I'd have never seen that sticker.
uh huh... that's funny.
OP
billt102
New member
The only thing i waqnt to add is that wherever i had that lever "set" was obviously between stopped and fully engaged. I ran around mowing for 15 minutes hals-***** engaged, because my shredder kept coasting to a stop when i got into anything heavy...
Basically i was probably heating up the clutch discs spinning the **** out of them. wheni DID finally get it engaged, the disks were probably hot and stuck/melted together... now they won't come apart. I will answer that as soon as i tear it apart, it rained and i did not want to start tearing it apart where it sits. will do it this week.
thanks for the input all, i will let you know.
boy, we got a bit off topic here, i had forgotten what the original post was until now!
i did a bit of testing today. in the middle position, the mower tries to turn, but since the pto is 'free wheeling', it can't overcome the friction of the drive belt (finish mower). but it does try to turn. i suspect the brush hog will still spin in 'neutral'.
i did a bit of testing today. in the middle position, the mower tries to turn, but since the pto is 'free wheeling', it can't overcome the friction of the drive belt (finish mower). but it does try to turn. i suspect the brush hog will still spin in 'neutral'.
