Loader 430 FEL lift problem

[billt102]

I was moving dirt and doing some digging this past weekend with my 4300 installing culverts. I was moving dirt from a stockpile to the culvert location (couple of hundred feet) and noticed the loader starting to drop during transit. The problem persisted and soon it was obvious it wasn't getting better.

I checked the hydraulic fluid and it was indeed low, (at the bottom of the observ. port). I added fluid (may have slightly overfilled, to the top of the observation port) but this didn't correct the problem. Could there be air in the lift cylinders? Curl works fine. 3 point raises and lowers perfectly. I want to exhaust all options before I rebuild the lift cylinders. Tractor has 1200 hours and this happened "all at once" I mean it was not leaking down or weak prior to becoming a limp noodle. Appreciate any help.
Thanks guys.

 

[lwalsh]

I was moving dirt and doing some digging this past weekend with my 4300 installing culverts. I was moving dirt from a stockpile to the culvert location (couple of hundred feet) and noticed the loader starting to drop during transit. The problem persisted and soon it was obvious it wasn't getting better.

I checked the hydraulic fluid and it was indeed low, (at the bottom of the observ. port). I added fluid (may have slightly overfilled, to the top of the observation port) but this didn't correct the problem. Could there be air in the lift cylinders? Curl works fine. 3 point raises and lowers perfectly. I want to exhaust all options before I rebuild the lift cylinders. Tractor has 1200 hours and this happened "all at once" I mean it was not leaking down or weak prior to becoming a limp noodle. Appreciate any help.
Thanks guys.

Switch the hose connections at the tractor, curl function of the lever will now make the loader go up/down and see what hapens

 

[kennyd]

Bill, Welcome to TBN

If there is no external leaking, it sounds like one of the lift cylinders developed a internal leak and the fluid is bypassing. Not a terribly uncommon problem. The cylinders are easily rebuilt, and should be done in pairs. The where at least two type of cylinders used over the years-so either post a picture or the S/N of the loader and I can walk you through it.

Lwalsh's suggestion is a good one also to ensure it's not a valve problem-but that is unlikely.

 

[billt102]

Thank you guys. After I posted I found a couple of other posts discussing extending the cylinders all the way out and "holding" to get any air out... I suspect I blew the cylinder seals digging in the clay. I will give extending them all the way out and back several times a try tonight and also switch the hoses and report in tomorrow, with the serial numbers if it is not by chance air related.

I have read some of the cylinder rebuild posts and i know this is odd but i am kind of looking forward to the challenge of rebuilding them...

Thanks again
Bill

 

[kennyd]

Thank you guys. After I posted I found a couple of other posts discussing extending the cylinders all the way out and "holding" to get any air out... I suspect I blew the cylinder seals digging in the clay. I will give extending them all the way out and back several times a try tonight and also switch the hoses and report in tomorrow, with the serial numbers if it is not by chance air related.

I have read some of the cylinder rebuild posts and i know this is odd but i am kind of looking forward to the challenge of rebuilding them...

Thanks again
Bill

Great Bill, keep us informed:thumbsup: Now do me a favor and change your Avatar

 

[arrabil]

Yeah, do change your avatar. I though Kenny was asking that question until I realized that just couldn't be possible...

 

[billt102]

yes that avatar is just like yours... Accidental of course. I will find a more distinct logo..

 

[billt102]

ok, new avatar transmitted...
Back to the issue. I am certain that it is the cylinders now, and figure I will rebuild them both. The numbers on the cylinders are JD AH163581 021899-1325 and the other side is identical except last four 1326.
Attached some pics.
I am heading out today, will check back in after 5pm CDT. Thanks again for the assistance.

 

[kennyd]

Thanks Bill-I like the new Avatar:thumbsup:

You have the older-early version of the cylinders...Definitely do both at the same time. If you need help with parts numbers let me know, but I assume you are registered at JDParts?

 

[billt102]

Yes I am registered. I looked this morning briefly for parts but i must not have been searching in the right place for the 430 loader. I will dig around more tonight and hopefully can find the part numbers for the "old style" cylinders. I thought that was what they were, I knew there were two types... it's a 2000 model I think and i am sure those are original.
I will get back to you if i need some assistance Kenny, thanks alot!
Bill

 

[jeff408]

I just rebuilt my cylinders and there just like yours. The hardest part is getting the wire ring that secures the endcap out. If I were you I would order new wire rings when you order the seal kits. You will need to either make or buy something that will allow you to rotate the endcap. As you rotate the end cap the wire ring should come out of the hole and unwind. But if it is anything like mine it was rusted in and had to be pulled with pliers/vicegrips and pushed with a small punch. If they are rusted in I would advice you to get the new wire rings 1st so you know just what you are up against. Because you will need to figure which direction you need to go to unwind them. Good luck.

 

[kennyd]

I just rebuilt my cylinders and there just like yours. The hardest part is getting the wire ring that secures the endcap out. If I were you I would order new wire rings when you order the seal kits. You will need to either make or buy something that will allow you to rotate the endcap. As you rotate the end cap the wire ring should come out of the hole and unwind. But if it is anything like mine it was rusted in and had to be pulled with pliers/vicegrips and pushed with a small punch. If they are rusted in I would advice you to get the new wire rings 1st so you know just what you are up against. Because you will need to figure which direction you need to go to unwind them. Good luck.

Good advice Jeff:thumbsup:

 

[beenthere]

I need to pay close attention to this repair.
So far, so good with my 430 FEL, but regularly max it out with pallets of split firewood...so it is likely just a matter of time.
Appreciate all the advice.

 

[billt102]

I just rebuilt my cylinders and there just like yours. The hardest part is getting the wire ring that secures the endcap out. If I were you I would order new wire rings when you order the seal kits. You will need to either make or buy something that will allow you to rotate the endcap. As you rotate the end cap the wire ring should come out of the hole and unwind. But if it is anything like mine it was rusted in and had to be pulled with pliers/vicegrips and pushed with a small punch. If they are rusted in I would advice you to get the new wire rings 1st so you know just what you are up against. Because you will need to figure which direction you need to go to unwind them. Good luck.

Jeff, thank you. I was worried about the wire rings most of all. I have been very busy the last few days so today i am finally trying to round up parts. I got on JDparts and went to the 430 FEL diagrams... well all the parts diagrams are lumped together for the 430 with the 419, 420 and 460 loaders, I was confused, and could not be sure which cylinder/ rebuild kit was actually for my cilinders.. I am going to have to dig in there again and maybe call deere.

As far as turning the end cap, and needing a tool, there is that hole in it. Is it threaded? I was thinking it was, but not sure. Again, once i am looking at the right diagram hopefully that will give me a hint. i wish i could SEE the wire ring thing before i got after it so i knew what i was up against.

I called a local hydraulic repair shop and the guy quoted me 140 apiece to rebuild these, so i am going to do it myself and put the 200 i will save towards an auger...

 

[billt102]

Is the Wire Ring called the "tie band" by JDParts?? in the diagram it would be No. 11. it states to also order something else with the Tie Band and gives a number. Think that must be it.

Kenny, in diagrams on JD parts, there are 9 "lift cylinders" outlined... i presume they are in order of model number, lowest to highest as follows.

2 - 410 old
4- 410 new
6 - 419
8- 420 old
10 420 new
12 430 old
14 430 new
16 460 old
18 460 new..

hence my 430 old style would be parts list # 12. cylinder replacement kit #AH157965, plus it says order 169904 (wire ring) AND it says SUB 176345...
is 176345 just a newer number?

 

[billt102]

I need to pay close attention to this repair.
So far, so good with my 430 FEL, but regularly max it out with pallets of split firewood...so it is likely just a matter of time.
Appreciate all the advice.

i was beating mine pretty good that day beenthere. digging in some heavy clay that was mixed with crushed concrete and in the bottom of a draw across my driveway. it stayed wet and i had packed it in for 2 years... it was coming out too!!! i should have used more curl to breakout and less lift. My fault. they are sturdy little loaders. I am so impressed with the power of this 4300. I was a little worried it was going to be undersized for me, but it is so versatile and powerful... No it is not a skid steer loader. Slow down Bill.

 

[kennyd]

Is the Wire Ring called the "tie band" by JDParts?? in the diagram it would be No. 11. it states to also order something else with the Tie Band and gives a number. Think that must be it.

Kenny, in diagrams on JD parts, there are 9 "lift cylinders" outlined... i presume they are in order of model number, lowest to highest as follows.

2 - 410 old
4- 410 new
6 - 419
8- 420 old
10 420 new
12 430 old
14 430 new
16 460 old
18 460 new..

hence my 430 old style would be parts list # 12. cylinder replacement kit #AH157965, plus it says order 169904 (wire ring) AND it says SUB 176345...
is 176345 just a newer number?

The drawing you posted is correct, and I agree with the numbers you found. Below is a screenshot of what I came up with.
I think the H169904 is the newer/current number, you sub (substitute) it for the H161744 number.

The H176345 is the older seal kit-it has been sub'ed for the AH157965.

So, you need to order:
2-AH157965 Seal Kit
2-H169904 Ring

Clear a s mud yet?:thumbsup:

 

[billt102]

odd, mine did not have the actual loader numbers on them. your screenshot is much more clear than what i ordered from...
Anyway I ordered the parts; Parts are out of stock at ALL my local dealers except 1 kit in Paris Tx... will have to wait for them to come in.

I will try to document the rebuild with pictures once i get the parts in.

thanks for all the help.

 

[mfreund]

I have a 4310 with the 430 loader and when I removed a old barn foundation and hauled it to my neighbor who crushed and resells the rock. He could not get over the size of the pieces I was bringing him that I loaded with my "little lawnmower" !!!

 

[kennyd]

odd, mine did not have the actual loader numbers on them. your screenshot is much more clear than what i ordered from...
Anyway I ordered the parts; Parts are out of stock at ALL my local dealers except 1 kit in Paris Tx... will have to wait for them to come in.

I will try to document the rebuild with pictures once i get the parts in.

thanks for all the help.

You are welcome. I am curious what your JD Parts screen looks like if it's different than mine:confused2:?