422 vrs 425

[MossRoad]

In 2001 the PT425 and PT422 were identical except for these things that I remember:

25 HP Kohler VS 22 HP (don't remember if it was a Kohler)
ROPs was standard on the 425 and cost $500 extra on the 422.

As I recall, at the time of purchase in 2001, after I did the math, the price per HP between the PT422 and PT425 was identical, so I bought the HP and the ROPs was free.

There are a couple reasons I went with the higher HP motor.

First, Power Trac recommended the extra HP if I wanted to use the 60" mower VS the 48" mower. I wanted the larger deck, so I took their suggestion.

Second, I like to have the largest engine available in a given frame size. I saw no reason to get the smaller engine when the price per HP was the same and I could afford it at the time. The price per HP today is much different. However, you get the ROPS, stronger wheel motors, two turning cylinders and higher lift height, as well as a bit longer machine than the 422, so there are some structural difference.

 

[MossRoad]

In 2001 the PT425 and PT422 were identical except for these things that I remember:

25 HP Kohler VS 22 HP (don't remember if it was a Kohler)
ROPs was standard on the 425 and cost $500 extra on the 422.

As I recall, at the time of purchase in 2001, after I did the math, the price per HP between the PT422 and PT425 was identical, so I bought the HP and the ROPs was free.

There are a couple reasons I went with the higher HP motor.

First, Power Trac recommended the extra HP if I wanted to use the 60" mower VS the 48" mower. I wanted the larger deck, so I took their suggestion.

Second, I like to have the largest engine available in a given frame size. I saw no reason to get the smaller engine when the price per HP was the same and I could afford it at the time. The price per HP today is much different. However, you get the ROPS, stronger wheel motors, two turning cylinders and higher lift height, as well as a bit longer machine than the 422, so there are some structural difference.

I searched for "price rops pt425" and found a post I made in December of 2001...

Re: Power Trac PT425 Quick Change Challenge
The 418 and 422 use Robbins engines and have 18 and 22 HP respectively. The 425 uses the Kohler Command 25HP engine.

The 418 does not have a hydraulic oil cooler and fan, the 422 and 425 do.

The 418 and 422 do not come standard with ROPS. The 425 does.

Price difference:
$6000.00 for PT418
$7000.00 for PT422, 4 more HP and hydraulic oil cooler.
$8000.00 for PT425, 7 more HP, Kohler Engine and hydraulic oil cooler ROPS and canopy.

Every one that I talked to are happy with the Robbins engine except one landscaper, who said that his 18HP died at 300 hours. Did not tell me why it died. I've always been partial to Kohler and there are several good places around here to get them serviced under warranty if needed. I looked at it this way. The gain in HP between the 18 and 25HP units is over 33%. The price difference is also a gain of 33%. So I am paying the exact same amount for each HP and I get the ROPS, canopy and hydraulic oil cooler free!( is this great math or what?)

 

[Barryh]

I searched for "price rops pt425" and found a post I made in December of 2001...

Re: Power Trac PT425 Quick Change Challenge
The 418 and 422 use Robbins engines and have 18 and 22 HP respectively. The 425 uses the Kohler Command 25HP engine.

The 418 does not have a hydraulic oil cooler and fan, the 422 and 425 do.

The 418 and 422 do not come standard with ROPS. The 425 does.

Price difference:
$6000.00 for PT418
$7000.00 for PT422, 4 more HP and hydraulic oil cooler.
$8000.00 for PT425, 7 more HP, Kohler Engine and hydraulic oil cooler ROPS and canopy.

Every one that I talked to are happy with the Robbins engine except one landscaper, who said that his 18HP died at 300 hours. Did not tell me why it died. I've always been partial to Kohler and there are several good places around here to get them serviced under warranty if needed. I looked at it this way. The gain in HP between the 18 and 25HP units is over 33%. The price difference is also a gain of 33%. So I am paying the exact same amount for each HP and I get the ROPS, canopy and hydraulic oil cooler free!( is this great math or what?)

The 425 is defiantly the way to go. I have the wife just barely talked into the price of a 422. It's just a couple thousand more honey.

Now, if I could figure out how to get her to go with the extra 4.500.00 I'd be in business. As much as I would love to have a 422 / 425 they are not priorities around here.

Reason being the 180 has done its jobs way to well, which makes for a very hard sell on a machine that cost almost twice as much.

 

[kmaz]

In my mind its easily worth the $2,500 to upgrade from the 422 to the 425. I dont think its been mentioned before but the oil cooler is also bigger along with the cooling fan. also , out of curiosity is the articulation joint on the 422 or the 180 a replaceable bearing insert like the 425 or is it like the rest of the ball joints on the tractor?
Kris

 

[BobRip]

Ah... big wheel motors. I was a bit confused, sorry about that.

Big wheel motors and also big wheels. I don't know about the tram pump or top speed.

 

[KentT]

When PT switched to the high torque wheel motors on the PT-425 in early to mid 2003, I think it was, top speed declined slightly. PT eventually dropped the previously stated 8 MPH top speed from their spec sheet. The last time I looked, it was unstated.

SnowRidge,

I think Bob's referring to the configuration that JDBeach (I think that's right) ordered at an even higher cost than a standard PT-425. It has 1430 wheel motors and bigger 26x12x12 tires...

JDBeach did that for use on the sand at the beach. I presume Bob's interested in the higher flotation for his swampy backwoods...

I'm not sure how much the 3" taller tires would compensate for the larger displacement wheel motors -- especially when I don't know size of the 1430s wheel motors. I'd guess that they'd add about 1mph or so back to the equation.

For example, with the upgrade from 12.5ci to 22.7ci wheel motors, I'm expecting the top speed of my 425 to be around 4.5 (down from 8+). Swapping the 23x10x12 tires to 26x12x12 would increase that top speed back up by about 1.2 mph, as I recall, from my calculations. That's my fall-back position if I find that the 22.7ci motors are simply too slow. If I'd gone to approximately 18ci motors, I may have had sufficient torque -- but if I found that it wasn't, my only recourse would've been to go to smaller tires, which isn't easily done. I can't afford to swap out the wheel motors twice... I can afford to replace a set of tires.

 

[BobRip]

SnowRidge,

I think Bob's referring to the configuration that JDBeach (I think that's right) ordered at an even higher cost than a standard PT-425. It has 1430 wheel motors and bigger 26x12x12 tires...

JDBeach did that for use on the sand at the beach. I presume Bob's interested in the higher flotation for his swampy backwoods...

Your thoughts are correct. Although the swamp is as dry as a desert right now. There is hope that it may rain again someday.

 

[Barryh]

I love my 422, and have seldom encountered situations where I wanted more wheel torque. The sngle steering cylinder actually has an avantage: you don't need to put a "knuckle buster" on the steering wheel, because it is less then a turn from lock-to-lock, so you don't have to rapidly spin the steering wheel while driving.

The disadvantage of the single cylinder is that it obviously concentrates stress, and one individual here has had the steering cylinder mount rip loose in the footwell. PT foolishlessly put a drain hole near the mounting, leaving only a small ligament to support the stress. I frequently take off the deckplate to check for any indication of stress fractures in this area, and will someday probably weld some reinforcements to the cylinder mounts to eliminate that worry. I would like to think that PT has changed their design to eliminate this flaw, but really doubt it, since they don't really seem to listen to this forum or implement feedback into their design.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/62158-broken-frame-pt-422-a.html

Does anyone with a 422 see a way to reinforce this cylinder mount area as in bolting a larger steel plate to the bottom or top with out having to do any welding??

 

[Barryh]

Sorry if these questions have been done to to death on here. I was wondering how much the newer wheel motors cost at this time. In case I wanted to add some later on down the road.

I normally try not to count my chickens before they've hatched but, I may have sold my PT as of next week the jury is still out.

If so then sometime this spring / summer I'll be in the market for a 422. After reading all of your comments and thinking about it. I still think the 422 is more than a capable machine with 800 pounds of lift the same 40 attachment assortment, and for the most part can do anything the 425 will do.

The only worrisome factor that comes to mind would be the one steering cylinder. I'm sure if I keep an eye on it, and I may even have it reinforced right off the bat. It should be fine.

I have mostly flat ground with some slight upward grades some small ravines to cross, so if the torque is anywhere near as good as my 180, which will climb some fairly steep hills. I really won't need the higher output wheel motors around here. If I ever move and have a lot of steep hills I can always upgrade the motors.

I've never found that I needed the extra height, and like another poster on here. The bucket lifts high enough to move rocks logs or anything I need to move in or out of my F-150. And my truck stands pretty tall. If I ever find I need a little more height. It's simple enough to make a small loading ramp to get up higher.

 

[KentT]

Sorry if these questions have been done to to death on here. I was wondering how much the newer wheel motors cost at this time. In case I wanted to add some later on down the road.

I normally try not to count my chickens before they've hatched but, I may have sold my PT as of next week the jury is still out.

If so then sometime this spring / summer I'll be in the market for a 422. After reading all of your comments and thinking about it. I still think the 422 is more than a capable machine with 800 pounds of lift the same 40 attachment assortment, and for the most part can do anything the 425 will do.

The only worrisome factor that comes to mind would be the one steering cylinder. I'm sure if I keep an eye on it, and I may even have it reinforced right off the bat. It should be fine.

I have mostly flat ground with some slight upward grades some small ravines to cross, so if the torque is anywhere near as good as my 180, which will climb some fairly steep hills. I really won't need the higher output wheel motors around here. If I ever move and have a lot of steep hills I can always upgrade the motors.

I've never found that I needed the extra height, and like another poster on here. The bucket lifts high enough to move rocks logs or anything I need to move in or out of my F-150. And my truck stands pretty tall. If I ever find I need a little more height. It's simple enough to make a small loading ramp to get up higher.

Barry,

I can't remember the exact prices -- it's like buried here in some of my old posts -- the White CE wheel motors that are used on the new PT 425s should be available for about $300-325 each. But, I'm not sure if the new PT-422s use the same "bolt-on" wheel motor mounting box/frame that the new PT-425s use. If they use the old-style welded on boxes that were used with the White 12.5ci motors, then that adds more work to convert... so, figure close to $1500 to upgrade them, add $500 for the ROPS, and you're looking at the remaining $500 price difference giving you the second steering cylinder and the larger engine, plus 6" higher lift. IMO, if you think you might need the wheel motor torque, it makes more sense to buy it up front...

As far as lift height, the 4-in-1 bucket will dump into PU beds and such better than the regular buckets, since they can dump out the bottom, which could help offset that limitation in some cases. The limiting factor is tilting the bucket to dump its contents -- which isn't necessary with the 4-in-1. If lift height is really an issue, there are other workarounds, such as front-hinged buckets like this one...

 

[woodlandfarms]

I normally try not to count my chickens before they've hatched but, I may have sold my PT as of next week the jury is still out.

If so then sometime this spring / summer I'll be in the market for a 422.

Barry... With tongue in cheek I ask why you have gone so small. I know of no one who has made such a small upgrade in tractors. At least a 1430 would have been the correct move up. I am impressed and amazed by your restraint. I could not have done it...

Carl

 

[Barryh]

Barry... With tongue in cheek I ask why you have gone so small. I know of no one who has made such a small upgrade in tractors. At least a 1430 would have been the correct move up. I am impressed and amazed by your restraint. I could not have done it...

Carl

Carl,

the correct move up for one person is not always the same for another. In a lot of cases I also might add, bigger is not always better. The 1430 is a very nice machine, but I really don't need anything that size for my little 1 plus acre. Hard to justify when I have a long long list of other priorities.

Now if I had your back 40, you can bet buying a larger tractor would be a no brainer. In fact my 180 was a great little machine, it handled anything I needed done around here.

I just wanted the extra 200 pound lift the option of the mini hoe, 40 attachments along with a little extra hydraulic cooling. When retirement comes along in about 15 years, and I have the option to buy 5 / 10 more acres, then I will defiantly buy a larger tractor. I also like the smaller size 180 /400 series for maneuvering around in our back woods.

 

[Barryh]

Barry,

I can't remember the exact prices -- it's like buried here in some of my old posts -- the White CE wheel motors that are used on the new PT 425s should be available for about $300-325 each. But, I'm not sure if the new PT-422s use the same "bolt-on" wheel motor mounting box/frame that the new PT-425s use. If they use the old-style welded on boxes that were used with the White 12.5ci motors, then that adds more work to convert... so, figure close to $1500 to upgrade them, add $500 for the ROPS, and you're looking at the remaining $500 price difference giving you the second steering cylinder and the larger engine, plus 6" higher lift. IMO, if you think you might need the wheel motor torque, it makes more sense to buy it up front...

As far as lift height, the 4-in-1 bucket will dump into PU beds and such better than the regular buckets, since they can dump out the bottom, which could help offset that limitation in some cases. The limiting factor is tilting the bucket to dump its contents -- which isn't necessary with the 4-in-1. If lift height is really an issue, there are other workarounds, such as front-hinged buckets like this one...

Some nice options I had not thought about Kent. I really don't see the less powerful wheel motors being a big issue for me. If I were using it commercially or used it as mower, and had a lot of steep hills to climb, then it would be a different story. I would go with the 425. Just wondered how much the motors cost knowing my options if ever needed as in, moving one day to another property .

The 422 on my budget gives me the option of buying more attachments when the time comes. I'm positive I'll be more than happy with a 422. I think I've read just about every post on this forum weighing in the differences between the two machines.

The 425 has some advantages but none worth the extra 2000 for my needs.

Unless I get one of these nightmare seniros where the engine burns up in the first 300 hours. Hoses / tanks leaking from a Friday night, hurry up lets get off work and go party welding job. I'm sure the 422 is going to be all the PT I need or want.

 

[Rivco]

Barry,
Here's a few more things to help confuse you in your decision between the 422 & 425. I bought the 22 Hp. carburetor & gov. spring from Robin and installed it on my old 180 ( less than $300.00 ) and BANG I have a 22 Hp. engine !!. I bought the 3-spool valve ( less than $300.00 ) and BANG I have a AUX. hydraulic circuit. The 422's have one steering cyl. same as the 180. The 180 has a 50" lift HT. & the 422 has a 52" lift HT.... not a big difference. The 422 lift cap is 800# compared to 600# on the 180, but the same engine is powering the hydraulics for that extra cap. The 422 has an oil cooler & the 180 does not....again basically the same engine (15 amp charging system). The other thing to consider is the Main PTO...the 422 & 425 have a elec. pto...so every time you engage an attachment you get the slam-bang effect!!, it's not a manual adj. soft start PTO like the 180 has.

IMO. I would go the extra mile ( $$$$) and buy the 425...the 422 and 180 are just to close in spec's and performance to make any difference. If you had bought the 422 to begin with then you would upgrade to the 425. I think you would be making a mistake going with the 422 where it is so close to the 180 ( with regards to the engine, single steering cyl., and probably the same pumps).Bite the bullet...and go for the 425.

I hope my input has confused your buying decision even more.

 

[Barryh]

Barry,
Here's a few more things to help confuse you in your decision between the 422 & 425. I bought the 22 Hp. carburetor & gov. spring from Robin and installed it on my old 180 ( less than $300.00 ) and BANG I have a 22 Hp. engine !!. I bought the 3-spool valve ( less than $300.00 ) and BANG I have a AUX. hydraulic circuit. The 422's have one steering cyl. same as the 180. The 180 has a 50" lift HT. & the 422 has a 52" lift HT.... not a big difference. The 422 lift cap is 800# compared to 600# on the 180, but the same engine is powering the hydraulics for that extra cap. The 422 has an oil cooler & the 180 does not....again basically the same engine (15 amp charging system). The other thing to consider is the Main PTO...the 422 & 425 have a elec. pto...so every time you engage an attachment you get the slam-bang effect!!, it's not a manual adj. soft start PTO like the 180 has.

IMO. I would go the extra mile ( $$$$) and buy the 425...the 422 and 180 are just to close in spec's and performance to make any difference. If you had bought the 422 to begin with then you would upgrade to the 425. I think you would be making a mistake going with the 422 where it is so close to the 180 ( with regards to the engine, single steering cyl., and probably the same pumps).Bite the bullet...and go for the 425.

I hope my input has confused your buying decision even more.

No confusion here... The 180 is gone as of tomorrow... my neighbor wants it. If he gets on here, I hope you guys treat him right. ;>) Summers a long way off. Between now and then anything could happen. I might even end up with a skid steer

 

[Barryh]

Anyone want to bring there PT over and plow my driveway for the winter ???

 

[BobRip]

Anyone want to bring there PT over and plow my driveway for the winter ???

Barry, sorry to belabor the point, but I also think your are making a mistake. If you want to upgrade the 422, you also have to change the tram pump, unless you want to cut your speed down about 30%. Also the wheel motors are not just more power, they are also physically stronger.

Also, the extra torque is also an advantage when digging with minihoe, bucker or trencher.

I would suggest test driving a 422 and also finding out if it has the same wheel motors as the 180, and if different what is the different.

Ok, you got my opinion. Hey you could buy my 422 with dual steering cylinders and then you could be happy.

Good luck and be happy.

 

[Barryh]

Barry, sorry to belabor the point, but I also think your are making a mistake. If you want to upgrade the 422, you also have to change the tram pump, unless you want to cut your speed down about 30%. Also the wheel motors are not just more power, they are also physically stronger.

Also, the extra torque is also an advantage when digging with minihoe, bucker or trencher.

I would suggest test driving a 422 and also finding out if it has the same wheel motors as the 180, and if different what is the different.

Ok, you got my opinion. Hey you could buy my 422 with dual steering cylinders and then you could be happy.

Good luck and be happy.

Ok I was happy... now you all have me thinking again. You just couldn't let it be could you ....

 

[BobRip]

Ok I was happy... now you all have me thinking again. You just couldn't let it be could you ....

Sorry. I guess I am famous for that. I push gently (sometimes not too gentle) till I get my way. Hey, it's not your decision anymore, just your money.

 

[Barryh]

Sorry. I guess I am famous for that. I push gently (sometimes not too gentle) till I get my way. Hey, it's not your decision anymore, just your money.

Ha ! Ha ! Bob you obviously don't know me. I always do what I want when I want, no one can sway me but, I'm not stupid either. It could be, you're just making really good sense. I'll be thinking it over. I have plenty of time. Thanks for all of your input and advice that's exactly what I was looking for. And of course everyone else has been very helpful