4035 Starting Issues

[tjus77]

I thought I saw this discussed somewhere before, but I can't find it. It has happened 3 times now. I go to start the tractor (twice it was after a number of days of rain, but the tractor is in a shed), and it turns over, but no fire. I press on the hand primer on the injection pump and let it sit a few minutes, then it starts. No problems after that starting and stopping. Unless it sits for a week while it is raining. Anything better to try or something needs replacing?

Thanks in advance.

TJ

 

[boudreaux81]

Check braided fuel line. Leaking allowing air in causing fuel bleed back to tank.

 

[RedFirstGen]

As mentioned above. If it's got the original braided fuel lines it's likely your culprit.

 

[Sysop]

+1 on the 35 series fuel lines. You won't see any fuel leak unless it is on the return side and that just gets slightly damp at worst. The pressures side sucks air into the airflow and causes the tractor to run lean and sometimes die, also causes hard starts cause of lack of fuel, and when not running, it can't hold fuel in the lines as air seeping into the lines allows all the fuel to return to the tank. It is a known issue on the 35 series with the original style fuel lines with the braided covering. They came up with a newer hose to use on the replacements which is dandy.

Below is a side by side, original braided on the left and the new style on the right. If your tractor came with the updated lines, you'll need to seek another solution.

 

[DavesTractor]

Ditto on the hoses, well known problem.

While speaking of hoses, I like to give a heads-up fairly frequently to all 35 series owners; make sure your power steering (hydraulic) hose is well away from your positive cable terminal at the starter. If not, move and secure it before you drive it again.

 

[dhaymon]

Better get it fixed quick! I reported it a couple of months ago to my dealer when I took my 5035 in for a 300 hr service. Told them I was having hard start issues. They gave me my tractor back without priming the pump. I called and they said I didn't know how to operate the tractor. I primed the pump but continued to have the issues. Finally lost the starter and had to have it hauled back to the dealer at my expense. They are replacing the fuel lines, but admitted they didn't check the recalls and would fix it. Today when I called for a status they told me the starter is a wear item and probably would have to be replaced at my cost. I reminded them of what I asked them to check when I first brought it in and they said no promises...

Guess who won't be getting the sale on the mPower 85p I was considering!!

 

[Sysop]

I think I'd call MUSA and explain that situation in full if the dealer tries sticking you with it. No way they should have let the hard starts slide then charge you for a starter.

 

[RaymondEdward]

Wouldn't the starter be part of the power train warranty?

 

[DavesTractor]

I think I'd call MUSA and explain that situation in full if the dealer tries sticking you with it. No way they should have let the hard starts slide then charge you for a starter.

I agree that a call should be made. I thought all dealers knew about the fuel hose issues. But we do not know the entire story, if the tractor starts poorly and you crank and crank on it there would be some responsibility on the owner to have the issue revisited even if the dealer's answers were not satisfactory at first. Not placing blame on the owner, but I don't want to throw the dealer under the bus either.

 

[Sysop]

Agreed, you shouldn't run a starter more than about 20-25 seconds at a time, giving it about 10 or 15 seconds of pause between tries to cool off. Too many folk these days do get in too big of a hurry, but I still say the dealer should have never let it leave their shop with the hard start issue still affecting it. Bad choice on their part and they should make that right. Beyond that, telling the customer "you just don't know what you're doing" is especially bad since the salesmen should always go over the operation of any new equipment they're going to be providing warranty on. If a customer isn't doing something right, instruct them rather than cast them off as some sort of idiot. From the story provided here, I don't think this is the sort of dealer MUSA wants and I'd gladly throw them under the bus...

 

[DavesTractor]

Sysop,

The first couple of times we dealt with the fuel hose issue it tripped us up. You will often see no leak, it is just sucking air. (I know you know that, just putting that out for others.) So the tech does a full service and it does not start right up, and he assumes he did not get the air out when he changed the fuel filter. He bleeds it and it starts great. He would not normally assume he needs to chase down fuel hoses. An hour later it still starts great when loaded to be delivered to the customer. A half hour later at the customer's house it still starts great as each of these time intervals is short enough.

The customer then parks it for a day or two, and it won't start. For that reason, if the dealer sold a low volume of these units he may not have been aware of what has become obvious to a volume dealer. Should have been, but you tend to be most up to date on the TSBs that affect what you sell.

 

[Sysop]

I don't think it is too much to ask for folk to know the products they sell. If it was one of the first ever, before the TSBs were released, it would be understandable. Mahindra had the issue identified and corrected on the new builds starting sometime in 2013. Dealers should have been up to speed by the end of 2014. Halfway through 2015, I consider it very unprofessional for a dealer to not know of the issue. Beyond that, to simply tell the customer they don't know what they are doing without some sort of instruction or resolution is also very unprofessional.

I spend a great deal of my personal time studying the products and services I provide to my customers. Lawyers have to keep up to date with changing laws (ignorance isn't a defense). Doctors have to learn about the new procedures and medicines as they come out. Techs at auto dealerships are sent to training to learn the new systems the latest models ship with. It really isn't too much to ask for a tech to be properly trained and up to date on the items they service, and it's not unreasonable to expect.

If the "tech" that did the "full service" in the scenario above hadn't learned the TSBs and stuff for that model, stuff that is needed to do his job, and further failed at that job by not specifically checking the TSBs on a model in his shop before sending it out, he's not much of a tech and I think MUSA needs made aware...

A couple new starters here and there is much cheaper than a bad reputation caused by dealer techs not knowing the machines in their shops and rushing through services without checking TSBs. I think if brought to MUSA's attention, they'll gladly deal with it...

 

[DavesTractor]

I don't think it is too much to ask for folk to know the products they sell. If it was one of the first ever, before the TSBs were released, it would be understandable. Mahindra had the issue identified and corrected on the new builds starting sometime in 2013. Dealers should have been up to speed by the end of 2014. Halfway through 2015, I consider it very unprofessional for a dealer to not know of the issue. Beyond that, to simply tell the customer they don't know what they are doing without some sort of instruction or resolution is also very unprofessional.

I spend a great deal of my personal time studying the products and services I provide to my customers. Lawyers have to keep up to date with changing laws (ignorance isn't a defense). Doctors have to learn about the new procedures and medicines as they come out. Techs at auto dealerships are sent to training to learn the new systems the latest models ship with. It really isn't too much to ask for a tech to be properly trained and up to date on the items they service, and it's not unreasonable to expect.

If the "tech" that did the "full service" in the scenario above hadn't learned the TSBs and stuff for that model, stuff that is needed to do his job, and further failed at that job by not specifically checking the TSBs on a model in his shop before sending it out, he's not much of a tech and I think MUSA needs made aware...

A couple new starters here and there is much cheaper than a bad reputation caused by dealer techs not knowing the machines in their shops and rushing through services without checking TSBs. I think if brought to MUSA's attention, they'll gladly deal with it...

Hard to argue much with that, well said my friend.

 

[Sysop]

Thanks, I try to view all sides of a situation and not be unreasonable. I also want to see Mahindra succeed as I have invested in their products personally. I'm in the service industry, so I know what it takes to support products designed by large companies. I've also seen the types of support given by large companies that both fail and succeed.

I don't think "throwing the dealer under the bus" was really the proper terminology as much as "getting them educated on proper growth-oriented support processes". Sometimes there is confusion or miscommunication between seller and buyer that causes issues such as a burnt out starter. As part of a growth oriented support process, it is up to the provider of the goods and services to make the needed corrections to eliminate the confusion or miscommunication both on the situation at hand as well as in the future. MUSA clearly understands this as has been shown in many of their past resolutions with past customers via many dealers. If the dealer truly has a bad attitude towards customers or the customer truly did something wrong, having all parties involved is the best route to a solution because all parties will learn from the process and lead to a greater success of all involved.

No matter the outcome or fault, anyone, whether it is the customer, the dealer, or the company itself, they all need these learning processes for future success; the customer to learn how not to break things, the dealer on what all to check and what parts of their processes need to change, and the company on ensuring the education reaches future dealers, techs, and customers.

 

[dhaymon]

I agree that I want to see Mahindra succeed. Had I not specifically asked them to check for TSB's and mentioned the hard starting to begin with and had I not called them several times saying I was killing the starter with the hard to start issue and needed help, I'd be more forgiving. I've been on tractors all my life. My grandfather owned a tractor dealership before he passed for crying out loud. I have also owned several diesel trucks, so I'm pretty well versed on common sense mechanicals. I could have fixed the tractor locally, but I have a warranty...

To DavesTractor's point, they should also know their tractors, as they advertise being "the biggest Mahindra dealer in XX" (which is a big state), I'd also see the point there if they were a little bitty dealership that only sold one or two of the 5035 model, but they are pretty big.

I'm a small business owner representing a large company and I occasionally have to make things right out of my own pocket, so I get that part too. I want to be loyal to them and also still believe in Mahindra and love my 5035. I was looking at a larger cab Mahindra, and will still consider it from another dealer. It just appears they don't care if I exist or not on the service side.

The fact that they have had my tractor for over two weeks after charging me to have it hauled back in by one of their guys, and have never called me in that two plus week timeframe, even when I have asked for a return call is frustrating to say the least. I called today and when I asked questions like "when do you think I might get the tractor back?" and they don't even attempt to tell me...that's frustrating.

Compare that to the diesel truck I bought last fall. Took it in on the same day as I did the service on the tractor and while changing the fluids and filters they came out and said "hey we found a TSB on the TPMS... Do you have time for us to fix it? Would you like a new truck to drive around while we work?" Etc. the comparison is night and day.

If they do make this right, I'll be the first to come back on here and tell you all...


But then, maybe it is just that I'm still a bit bitter because I never got my special owners hat...ha!

 

[DavesTractor]

I agree that I want to see Mahindra succeed. Had I not specifically asked them to check for TSB's and mentioned the hard starting to begin with and had I not called them several times saying I was killing the starter with the hard to start issue and needed help, I'd be more forgiving. I've been on tractors all my life. My grandfather owned a tractor dealership before he passed for crying out loud. I have also owned several diesel trucks, so I'm pretty well versed on common sense mechanicals. I could have fixed the tractor locally, but I have a warranty...

To DavesTractor's point, they should also know their tractors, as they advertise being "the biggest Mahindra dealer in XX" (which is a big state), I'd also see the point there if they were a little bitty dealership that only sold one or two of the 5035 model, but they are pretty big.

I think if I were your dealer, I'd be ordering that starter! Seems you gave them a ton of heads-up on the issue.

 

[Navasot]

Wouldn't the starter be part of the power train warranty?

No powertrain warranties go by anything soaked in oil.

 

[dhaymon]

I think if I were your dealer, I'd be ordering that starter! Seems you gave them a ton of heads-up on the issue.

DavesTractor's...I think they probably will. Got a phone call today and had a good discussion with someone who can make that call. Wilł let you all know once I find out.

 

[dhaymon]

I promised an update...tractor is home and repaired. New starter and updated low pressure fuel hoses per recall.

The service manager had been out of town. After we talked, he got everything going and called today to say the tractor was ready. I went expecting some cost due to their coming to get the tractor and also putting a tube in a rear tire and refilling it with water, but to my surprise, he shook my hand after loading it up and said "no charge."

Confidence in them restored!

 

[Sysop]

As it should be. Happy you are fixed up and thanks for the follow-up!