4035 HST gutless!!

[IronHorsePilot]

Well, the mechanic came and replaced the fuel line. Made no difference at all. He cut a cap off of what I believe to be the fuel pump and then made an adjustment to it. Said he was increasing the fuel pressure. Again, made no difference. Mechanic said they had a 4035 HST in the shop for a 50 hour service so said he would go back and drive it and see if it was the same. Im still waiting to hear back. He did agree it definitely does not seem right.

 

[sd455dan]

That is the problem. I have to back off the pedal so far that I am basically crawling up the hill at a snails pace to keep the tractor RPS's up. I am barely pushing the pedal and if I do the RPMs go so low I can actually kill the engine. For a 40 horse tractor I expected alot more.

Well see monday after this fuel line is fixed correctly.

this almost sounds like the fuel rail in the injection pump is not increasing the the fuel delivery under load


when mowing- the tractors engine is set close to the recommended PTO rpm correct?

If you open up the throttle quickly under load can you get any black smoke out of the exhaust, if not the rail may either be stuck or mis adjusted, there was a thread about this concerning a chinese tractor. IIRC it was a thread about a Kama or Foton 554 the symptoms were similar to yours- in that the tractor was gutless and could barely climb a hill, after adjustment the tractor had way more power and could climb the same hill in high gear with ease...

And as you stated this is a HST drive tractor, but I would think the injector pump would still have to respond to load like most diesel injector pumps do by increasing fuel delivery to keep rpms steady (injector pump govenor moves fuel rail proportionally to stabilize rpm) ...??? Maybe the dealer could also verify the injector pump timing, as it can also effect power output...

 

[DavesTractor]

As mentioned above, a hydraulic remote accidentally in a detent position and bypassing will suck a bunch of HP, and overheat the oil etc. But you would have noticed that by now. Hi range in a heavy HST tractor is never impressive, but it should mow like crazy with a 6' mower, even on some hills. RPM most all the way up, mid-range on flats and low on steeper hills and you ought to be impressed. We have a 4035HST with a 7' Flail we sold a company and it spins it like it isn't back there.

I'd see if the dealer can put it on their dyno and check engine output. It is hard for us to know how tall your grass is and how steep your hills are, but a dyno will tell us if the engine is making proper power. If it is, they can check to see if you have a brake dragging badly or something like that.

On the low pressure fuel hoses - if you get a leak, I prefer to just remove the factory crimp and put on a good piece of hose and a screw clamp. At that point, you no longer have a "special hose" if it should ever fail on a holiday weekend. You just grab a piece of hose and put it on. The factory hoses look cool all crimped up, but I think anytime we can use standard hardware we are better off. Just my opinion, keep it in mind if you get a failure when you are out of warranty.

 

[Soundguy]

anything yet?

 

[IronHorsePilot]

Ive been waiting on the mechanic to call me back about driving another 4035 they have in for the 50 hour service. He says they are waiting on parts. As soon as he drives it he will let me know. At this point I am just using it as much as I can. The bad thing is instead of setting the RPM at the 2500 range for the 540 pto I have to run the tractor almost wide open at the 32-3300 range or else it is just boggs down so bad. I can bet thats not good to run the engine wide open and Im using fuel like crazy!

A neighbor down the road brought his New Holland Boomer 25 over and that thing will run circles around my tractor that is 13 more horse and 11 more horse pto power. Something is definitely not right!

 

[IronHorsePilot]

Ive been waiting on the mechanic to call me back about driving another 4035 they have in for the 50 hour service. He says they are waiting on parts. As soon as he drives it he will let me know. At this point I am just using it as much as I can. The bad thing is instead of setting the RPM at the 2500 range for the 540 pto I have to run the tractor almost wide open at the 32-3300 range or else it is just boggs down so bad. I can bet thats not good to run the engine wide open and Im using fuel like crazy!

A neighbor down the road brought his New Holland Boomer 25 over and that thing will run circles around my tractor that is 13 more horse and 11 more horse pto power. Something is definitely not right!

 

[Soundguy]

i'd be asking them to dyno that thing....

 

[MahindraDon]

There is such a huge difference with the HST over that old Ford. I personally can't stand HST tractors for the exact reason you are mentioning, but I have learned that my bias is just that, biased. Without actually operating your machine it is hard to tell, but I wonder some things. 1. Is the remote position lever off or on? Depending on age of your 35 series, some of those levers were hard for even the most seasoned tractor operator to know. 2. Are your tires full of fluid making it super heavy and creating unnecessary strain? That tractor is plenty heavy without loading tires for normal use. I recommend loading tires for extra weight only for extreme loader work. 3. Is your hydraulic fluid burnt up or improper stuff added by someone trying to save money. The fluid in these HST's is the most crucial thing. Instead of those enormous gears locking together on that old Ford, this thing is relying on fluid to build pressure through orifices and tiny passageways to move this heavy beast. I try not to hate on HST's anymore, but this is their Achilles heel. If you use the yellow bucket of cheap hydraulic fluid your tractor will act weak in every way. With quality Mahindra (or comparable) fluid, this problem might just be resolved. Also, ever notice bulldozers or other heavy equipment revved way up when they are working? These machines almost always have HST's these days. They aren't weak by any means, it just takes lots of rpm's to move that fluid fast enough to get the job of moving everything done. You might just be in too low of RPM range for the load you are carrying. Sorry for the novel, hope it helps you understand some.

 

[wolftree]

IronHorsePilot,

This is just a wild idea, but check the muffler for being partially blocked. They can really rob the power if they are restricted. Strangely, I have encountered this on two tractors and two different trucks. Everything will check out as operating correctly, but no power until I removed the muffler. In each case, there was a partial blockage inside the muffler.

 

[DavesTractor]

IronHorsePilot,

This is just a wild idea, but check the muffler for being partially blocked. They can really rob the power if they are restricted. Strangely, I have encountered this on two tractors and two different trucks. Everything will check out as operating correctly, but no power until I removed the muffler. In each case, there was a partial blockage inside the muffler.

We worked on an older Ford 1000 that had the muffler completely stuffed full with acorns. It would hardly run over an idle and took us a little bit to figure out!

A dyno will be a quick way to see if the engine is making power. If it is, then look for other power-robbing issues like brakes being partially stuck, etc.

 

[Sysop]

I have a new 4035HST and while HST does rob you of a significant portion of the power over geared transmissions, the machine should be anything but gutless. I'm not sure how much it is bogging or on what size slopes, but any change (even tiny changes) in the operating load will make a difference on the engine RPMs if you hold steady on the HST pedal. Slight increases in slope increase the load, with everything else remaining constant, the RPMs are guaranteed to decrease. The only way to counter it is to decrease pressure on the pedal to decrease the load, or increase the throttle to provide more fuel to overcome the increased load. The 4035HST is a HEAVY tractor for 40 horsepower to move around when 31 of it is sent to the PTO and some is lost on the ease of operation that comes with HST.

I generally run my finish mower with the tractor in medium range, and have a enbankment of about 20% I go down and come back up. I keep the RPMs set at PTO speed on flat ground, and press the forward HST pedal nearly all the way down for mowing the flat ground. When I go down the grade I must release some of the pressure on the HST pedal or the tractor gains too much speed for a good cut. After I loop around and go back up the hill, I keep the HST pedal steady and throttle up as the the RPMs become affected by the load. In doing this, I maintain a relatively steady speed, the HST doesn't make any of the "whining" noises that come from not having enough pressure inside to perform the task you're demanding of it, and it keeps the engine and everything operating at the proper PTO RPM. I back off the throttle as I crest the hill to keep from letting the RPMs go too high. If I were to leave the throttle set where it needs to be pulling a hill, it would rev up to about 3200RPM on flat ground. Naturally the weight of the implement plays a large role in how much throttle you'd need, and at a certain point, the only solution to prevent premature engine wear is to use a lower gear range.

That being said, my tractor does seem to have a noticable difference in small changes of load. That somewhat indicates to me the tractor is operating at or near it's available capacity and I think I maybe should have went with a 5035...

 

[IronHorsePilot]

Ok, dealer has been back 2 times. Once to do some trouble shooting and the second to replace the dash and PTS switch that quit working. The second time we got into the discussion about the tires being filled with rim guard. He called his service manager and they agreed that part of the power problem could be the rim guard. Anyone agree? I hate to drain $350+ of rim guard out of the tires.

 

[kiotiken]

Ok, dealer has been back 2 times. Once to do some trouble shooting and the second to replace the dash and PTS switch that quit working. The second time we got into the discussion about the tires being filled with rim guard. He called his service manager and they agreed that part of the power problem could be the rim guard. Anyone agree? I hate to drain $350+ of rim guard out of the tires.

Good god no, I don't agree. My DK45 has loaded tires and so did my CK30. Both seem pretty unstoppable to me, although I'm always finding a way to try! Don't drain the tires, that's not the problem. Have you tried another one at the dealers?

I just pulled an 8000 lbs loaded trailer with 800 lbs extra ballast on the loader 25KM in high range. Total weight of the tractor, load and trailer was probably 14,000-15,000 lbs, I wouldn't worry about the 1000 lbs in your tires.

 

[DavesTractor]

Ok, dealer has been back 2 times. Once to do some trouble shooting and the second to replace the dash and PTS switch that quit working. The second time we got into the discussion about the tires being filled with rim guard. He called his service manager and they agreed that part of the power problem could be the rim guard. Anyone agree? I hate to drain $350+ of rim guard out of the tires.

Have the dealer dyno the tractor. You need to know if it is putting out advertised HP. I would not drain the Rim Guard.

 

[arrow]

Ok, dealer has been back 2 times. Once to do some trouble shooting and the second to replace the dash and PTS switch that quit working. The second time we got into the discussion about the tires being filled with rim guard. He called his service manager and they agreed that part of the power problem could be the rim guard. Anyone agree? I hate to drain $350+ of rim guard out of the tires.

I just recently bought a Mahindra but different manufacturer than your Korean built tractor (Mitsubishi). What was the same however was that in comparing the two tractors (geared and shuttle), I found the hst intolerable for this 28 hp model. By intolerable I mean that to do any work, this tractor had to be screaming in rpms and would not crest a hill in high unless it was. I attributed this to the lower hp but everything is in ratio of hp to weight. I don't know what is going on with some of these hst Mahindras but no other manufacturer seems to have the same problems in this regard. People who bought hst's in Kioti, Kubota, New Holland, JD, etc, seem to be enraptured with their hst's. Mahindra may be putting on smaller pumps to their spec built tractors to save money for all we know. For me and what I do (logging), I had little choice but to get the geared model as I just couldn't live with the hst trying to chug up an incline while hitched to a 2000 lb log going 1/4 mph. It either had to go slow or rev its guts out. If they can't fix this problem, trade it in for a geared 4035. I believe they have a power shuttle in this model where you don't even have to step on the clutch from forward to reverse. I personally would not unload my tires. If anything, swap them on the new geared tractor. Good luck. It will all end up well.

 

[Biggreenavalanche]

I have the 4035 PST, it is def not gutless...as Arrow indicated you don't need the clutch from forward to reverse, I usually use it anyway, old habits...

 

[MahindraDon]

It is a fine line between insulting a prospective buyer and helping someone get the right machine for their needs when discussing HST transmissions. I have had inexperienced folks burn out a clutch in less than 100 hours. Those folks need a HST because they can't work the machine properly. Those folks also don't realize the power they are sacrificing because they have never straddled an old gear drive transmission and felt how strong it can be. Even the old gasser Fords had more power to work than modern HST's of the same horsepower. IronHorse, have you had experience with old strong gear drive transmissions? If so I would trade that HST. The dealer would love to get it back and the PST is cheaper so you won't make out bad on a trade. A standard shuttle is even cheaper than the PST so you could potentially do an even swap. If you have experience, kick that oil pusher to the side and go have some gear grinding fun!

 

[homedad]

If I was a customer focused dealer I would bring out a similar tractor for you to use while I took your tractor in for service. This would make it obvious if the problem was specific to your tractor or a bad customer/tractor fit. I would hate having an unhappy customer.

 

[arrow]

I. IronHorse, have you had experience with old strong gear drive transmissions?!

The op is coming from an old Ford 8N so he most definitely has the experience.

 

[arrow]

If I was a customer focused dealer I would bring out a similar tractor for you to use while I took your tractor in for service. This would make it obvious if the problem was specific to your tractor or a bad customer/tractor fit. I would hate having an unhappy customer.

Absolutely correct. These are the companies that are highly successful and separates them from the "also rans" It is astounding to me how many retailers do not get this.