400x vs 400CX ... Help!

[MaineBob]

Help! ... I was about to pull the trigger on a 4320 cab with a 400x loader, but several folks (thanks, guys!) suggested I consider the 400CX. Funny .... the dealer never mentioned it, even when I asked "is there anything else I should be considering .... I do not want to get this home and realize I should have bought option abc but didn't know about it?" Perhaps it is because the earliest availability date from the factory is 5/12 ??

Anyway .... I need to decide. I'll be using the loader a lot with an 800+ lb Horst root grapple rake to clean up brush, roots, etc. While the 400CX does have considerably more capacity out at the end of the bucket, the capacity near the pivot pins is about the same. When I inquired about this with the dealer, he raised the question (besides cost and the wait for delivery) of the dump angle at the ground .... 86.5 vs 130 degrees for the CX vs X, respectively. He thought the lack of dump angle with the grapple may keep me from rolling the grapple all the way back and picking up, for example, a pile of brush from the top. As I think about it, though .... if 0 degrees is with the grapple perpendicular to the ground, an 86 degree dump will get the grapple almost parallel to the ground, at least when the loader is near the ground, right?
As I raise the loader, I'll loose dump angle ... but will it matter? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Could someone with more loader experience help me out? I want to settle this with the dealer one way or the other tomorrow, before I (or the boss) change my mind on the whole deal!

Thanks!

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Here is the early info on it...

400CX Info

Do a search in the forums, I read at least one that had issues with the rollback angle....

 

[ddivinia]

I have a 400X on my 4720 and it has worked fine. I would consider the 400CX due to the extra capacity. Now I have a 542 SL on my 5525 with a grapple and it sure is nice to go right on top of a pile and start picking stuff up.

D.

 

[tom30519]

I have a 400CX on my 4520. I wanted the extra capacity as well as the self-levelling, as I'm used to having that.

I also have the JD 4in1 bucket, and there's no problem rolling the fully-open bucket forward enough so that the upper jaw is touching the ground well before the lower jaw. I can bring it down flat on top of a pile of brush.

Of course, the 4in1 doesn't pick UP the brush like a grapple or rake would, but that's another problem entirely! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Tom.

 

[ddivinia]

Grapple buckets are awesome. I have one on my 5525 and it is so handy. For me, the self leveling thing is not that big a deal, the extra capacity is the big deal.

D.

 

[MidGALandscaper]

I would definitely go with the 400CX. The self leveling feature is really nice. plus you will be able to lift a couple hundred pounds more (with some good ballast of course). I am going to test mine today or tomorrow on a pallet of sod (close to 2000+ pounds). I hope the 400CX will get them off the ground at least a couple of feet so I can move them around.

 

[tom30519]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( As I raise the loader, I'll loose dump angle ... but will it matter? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif)</font>

Actually, you gain dump angle as a CX raises up - the parallelogram rolls the bucket forward relative to the loader arms to keep it at the same angle relative to the ground. What you lose is curl (rollback).

I've attached 3 photos of my CX with the 4n1, you can see the angles at level, fully dumped and fully rolled back. Hope these are of some help.

I am re-roofing some sheds, so the self-levelling was of moderate importance as I use the loader to lift shingles and stuff up to where I'm working. But I agree with others that the increased capacity is the biggest reason to go with the CX.

Tom.

 

[tom30519]

400CX fully dumped

T.

 

[tom30519]

400CX fully rolled back.

T.

 

[ddivinia]

Nice pics - that rocks. I wish they had the 400CX when I bought my 400X - oh well.

D.

 

[bam747]

If you have chance, showing some pictures of the 400CX with the bucket flat/level on the ground and then how the self leveling system works as you raise the bucket to 5' high and then to full height would be very handy for people to see.

 

[tom30519]

Always happy to oblige - where tractors are concerned! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The camera was on a tripod, so if you download all three pics, you can "flip" through em; the levelling action is easy to follow.

#1: 400CX down

Tom.

 

[tom30519]

#2: 400CX part way up.

T.

 

[tom30519]

#3: 400CX all the way up.

T.

 

[bam747]

Thanks! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Shows just how mechanical self leveling works. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[BloomingtonMike]

So can you over-ride the self leveling then?

 

[tom30519]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( So can you over-ride the self leveling then? )</font>
Nope, you can't override the mechanical levelling. Not without a hacksaw and a welding torch, anyway! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

But you can play with the joystick, doing the opposite of what you'd do when trying to keep a 400X bucket level, of course.

Another difference between the two loaders: JD says that the 400CX is made from 6mm high(er) tensile steel, whereas the 400X is apparently made from 5mm steel. At any rate, the CX does feel stiffer than the 400X I demo'ed at the dealer.

Tom.

 

[bam747]

Do you have an application where you don't want automatic self leveling?

If you don't have an automatic self leveling system, you and your eye hand coordination are the self leveling system. Otherwise, you can end up dumping your bucket contents out the back of the bucket as you rais the FEL up to full height. If you're lucky, whatever that is drops in front of the tractor. If you're unlucky, it drops on the hood. If you're really unlucky and the loader lifts high enough, it might even drop and roll far enough to reach you!

Remember that with a mechanically self leveling FEL, whatever dump/crowd angle you set while the bucket is on the ground STAYS fixed automatically as you raise the FEL arms. For instance, if your bucket is crowded back to an angle of, say, 40 degrees with respect to the horizontal, it will stay at 40 degrees with respect the horizontal throught the entire lift range of the FEL with no operator input other than to just run the FELs raise/lower circuit. Another place where MSL is very nice to have is with a set of pallet forks. Set them level or just slightly above level when you pick up a pallet and the pallet stays at that angle through the entire FEL lift range. Without MSL, you have to constantly adjust the angle of the forks as you raise and lower the FEL.

Myself, if available, I will try very hard to an MSL FEL on my next go around. Or, some manufactures offer hydraulic self leveling (HSL). Usually it is active only while raising the FEL arms, although I've seen some newer FELs that offer HSL on both raising and lowering of the FEL.

Yes, MSL and HSL do cost more, but you have to remember to amortize that cost over 20+ years of ownership. Is automatic self leveling on a loader essential? Nope. Does it make FEL loader use easier and more productive? Yep!