3rd function valve

[MtnViewRanch]

All that link tells me is that there is a 3rd function kit available. It is listed as a loader option. Do you think it might/could be used for something else.

If the solenoid and subplate kit is not used for the loader, do you still call it a true 3rd function.

I use the 3rd function term just to indicate there is a solenoid valve on a sub plate perhaps making it a true 3rd function kit.

There must be a problem with the terminology if one has to describe a valve as a true 3rd valve. What is an untrue 3rd valve.

This does not have to go further unless you all want to.

Perhaps someone will find the true definition of 3rd function.

I thought all my facts were fairly accurate. I know if they are not, you guys will surely set me straight. Don't beat me up to much.

From what I have seen, these kits are listed as loader options. Can they be used for something else, you bet. But when they are used for use on-with a loader, that is when they become a 3rd function valve-kit, in my mind anyway.

 

[the old grind]

Thanks, J_J! Whatever I do have on the loader is convenient for all my work as is. I've been picturing including a 6-port diverter, but IIRC the one Tony showed me was 4(?)-port and to me this will work if all return oil is routed ok ('optioned'?) to sump with my setup. (I guess this valve is what's used on MIE's Kioti 'drop fit' kits with some hard line) and might obviate some of the extra hoses (2?) I'm imagining .. ?

btw: curl spool has regen on dump. Can that mean I might feather a grapple lid ... if it's in any way like having float on the curl spool when activated? (not sure I'd want to ..)

I appreciate the help, and hope what I'm throwing out may bring forth some pics or something that uh .. haven't appeared in recent similar discussions. I wish I was that much closer to getting my NH to MIE's shop. :hissyfit: (matter of days, now ...)

 

[J_J]

Some loader valves have regen in the first part of lever travel, and others at the far right.

Kubota seems to have the odd valve with the regen in the first part of lever travel.

A four port subplate will route the pump flow from the T port downstream.

If you have the four port valve for your grapple, you will not have any feather. It will be full flow..

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I believe that someone coined that term when they wanted to add a third valve, not spool. However I don't know for sure.

The first valve on just about any tractor is the 3pt valve. Loaders are an add on with one valve and two spools.

On the Kubota BXs that come standard with a backhoe the BH is first, the FEL is second, and the 3PT is the last in the PB circuit. PS is a separate flow pattern from a priority valve.

So I guess not all tractors are equal.

Interesting conversation anyway JJ, glad you thought it up. Maybe we all will learn something or remain confused by all this terminology. Seems like I have always seen 3rd function applied to the FEL ands not other attachments.

Ron

 

[Leejohn]

I am going to answer my own question, in what I THINK from experience. I believe there is some flow to the PB port even if the loader valve is operated fully open to say raise the lift.. But it will be pretty slow, with the flow rates we see on CUTS. That is what I think.

I would say thats right, if the flow rate match that of the tractor. In and out port are alot larger then the work ports. Now if the flow rate is 8gpm and you put on a 25gpm valve then maybe the loader could use all of the 8gpm. I would say that it would use all of it.

 

[J_J]

On the Kubota BXs that come standard with a backhoe the BH is first, the FEL is second, and the 3PT is the last in the PB circuit. PS is a separate flow pattern from a priority valve.

So I guess not all tractors are equal.

Interesting conversation anyway JJ, glad you thought it up. Maybe we all will learn something or remain confused by all this terminology. Seems like I have always seen 3rd function applied to the FEL ands not other attachments.

Ron

Let me answer your statement this way.

I believe the tractor rolls off the line with one valve, the 3pt valve,making it the one and only valve, and them the BH is added later, probably at the dealer and then the hyd flow is redistributed, and then later, maybe a loader is added, making it the first valve in the hyd system.

Do you know for sure that the pump flow go to the BH first?

It would if there was no loader.

Just my thoughts.

 

[sparc]

Wouldn't these terms have originated with the first tractors to offer hydraulics other than the 3pt lift?

It was not the first most likely, but didn't old Fords have a valve plate that was added to provide a 2nd function, and then another valve plate could be stacked on top of this to add a 3rd function?

There were attachments then loaders which were used way back, I don't see why/how the label of 2nd or 3rd function would be tied to a loader only and then mis-used, as some have eluded to here, for other attachments. I think they had generic names because they could be used with so many different attachments.

Some examples of the add-on valves plates I'm referring to.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Let me answer your statement this way.

I believe the tractor rolls off the line with one valve, the 3pt valve,making it the one and only valve, and them the BH is added later, probably at the dealer and then the hyd flow is redistributed, and then later, maybe a loader is added, making it the first valve in the hyd system.

Do you know for sure that the pump flow go to the BH first?

It would if there was no loader.

Just my thoughts.

JJ,

The flow pattern is very clear in the WSM for the BX25. Also you can only buy the BX25 w/FEL and BH. The same basic tractor is offered under different Model #s. You cannot install the BH on those models. I have no idea on them but the FEL is optional as well as the front HYD joy stick for other front attachments. I would assume the FEL then is first but ???

Ron

 

[J_J]

Looking at the BX25 pump circuit from Messnicks, it looks like there is a a cover plate which they remove and install a thread cover plate with two ports which feed the BH.

You guys should have the manual, but I will bet that when they install a loader, the PB port from that adapter plate goes to the loader and the PB from the loader comes back to feed the BH, and the BH return fluid comes back to the adapter plate and then feeds the 3pt.

{ Well, I lost that bet. } see post 51

Do you have the hook up for the loader or is it a dealer function?

If all that is true, then the loader relief is the master relief for the hyd system.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

JJ and all,

Attached is a copy of the HYD diagram from the WSM. I have drawn flow arrows on it for clarification. Note item 11 the relief valve, it establishes the pressure right at the pump, it is part of HST housing casting. Items 4 and 3 are the control valve and cylinders for the 3PT. When the BH is off the P hose plugs into the PB circuit going to the FEL as the P input. The BH valve block is a PB and there are three hoses to/from it.


Ron