3510i Front axle problem

[warrior160]

At the first drain interval (50 hour) I noticed the fluid level wasn't even registering on the front axle dipstick. This concerned me so I kept an eye on it after refilling the 7.5 qts. specified. Little more than an hour later I checked it again and it was half way down the dipstick so I topped it off again at the same time checking to see if there was any leaks on the floor of the shed where the tractor is kept. No leaks were apparent anywhere under the tractor. I kept checking at approximately hour intervals and every time the fluid level had dropped again with no leaking. I checked the travel paths usually used with the tractor to see if the fluid was spurting out while in operation only, with not a drop found. I checked the level of fluid after 4 hours this last time to see if it would drop below the halfway mark on the dipstick. Sure enough, this time it was not showing on the dipstick at all.
I called my dealer and spoke to the mechanic and he thought the fluid might be seeping into another part of the tractor, but after speaking to Branson, was assured the front axle resevour was totally isolated from the rest of the tractor and told him what I claimed was happening was impossible and had not heard anyone else with this kind of problem.
I know somewhere on this forum I read someone else posted a similar problem.
Has anyone else out there experienced this problem and has anyone got an answer or solution. So far I've added almost 12 qts. in a resevoir thats designed for 7.5 qts. This is not only getting expensive but becoming a big pain in the butt. (warrior160@hotmail.com)

 

[Zork]

I did not remember where the front differential unit has a breather, but look for it. I do not think that it has a hose attached to it. If the breather is plugged the pressures will build and force the fluid somewhere. With that said it may go into the input shaft shield that has been sealed by a hose (should also have a sealed bearing) I'll have to check my manual, but I had to make sure BOTH steering knuckles were full, and the pot. Again, I do not remember how much, or if the prescribed amount was right. Hope this helps.

 

[warrior160]

Thanks fjb2c. I will pressurize the axle to see if I can hear air coming out of the breather which I believe is on top of the axle.
I would however, reccomend to all readers who have 3510i's or similar Bransons to check the level of thier fluid in thier front axles often. If anyone else is having the same problem, please let me know...............warrior160

 

[Zork]

Thanks fjb2c. I will pressurize the axle to see if I can hear air coming out of the breather which I believe is on top of the axle.
I would however, recommend to all readers who have 3510i's or similar Bransons to check the level of their fluid in their front axles often. If anyone else is having the same problem, please let me know...............warrior160

No, I did not mean for you to pressurize the system. The vent that might be plgged is causing the pressurization. You might damage your seals if you do this.

 

[polo1665]

Warrior, my 3510H is also at the 50 hr service and I have run across the same situation. When I initially checked the Fluid level it showed low. I was confused by this and the instructions for changing the fluid.

My tractor has the front axle dipstick on the left side of the tractor (as you are sitting on it). On the right side of the axle, in the same place, there is an orange cap which looks like a breather. My book mentions nothing of the breather, it only instructs you to check the level and add oil at the side with the dipstick. This confused me, so i went to the dealer with questions about the low level and the breather cap. My dealer called Branson in Georgia and spoke to a technician. The tech said that on the older Bransons there were two dipsticks, one on either side and the axle had a right and left oil resevoir. The newer Bransons have just the one dipstick and the oil resevoir runs across the entire front axle. He said this could be the reason the oil level seems low. If you have been driving the tractor on unlevel ground the oil could migrate into the left side of the axle, causing the dipstick on the right to show a lower than normal fluid level. He said to make sure to park the tractor on level ground for awhile before you check the oil level.

I noticed when I filled mine with the correct amount of oil it, seemed overfull
until i drove it up and down the drive. Now it seems fine. I will check again tomorrow to see if any oil has disappeared. My dealer said that this was not the first time this question has been raised.

Mark

 

[Eagleview]

I do'nt think the Tech. is correct , because at some point in time the oil level would be overfull when checked not constantly low . The only possible explanation is that the oil is slowly running through the outer axle bearings and into the swivel hubs . If warrior's diff has been running that low on oil for that long i'd be supprised if it has'nt done damage to the diff center . An yes i have read this a few times on TBN , it would pay you to do a search .

 

[warrior160]

My 3510i is a 2007 and just a year old and has a filler dipstick on both steering knuckles. It is kept in a shed with a perfectly level heavy plywood floor, I'm **** that way. It doesn't matter which side I check, the level is just the same as the resevoir is common throughout the axle and the fluid still keeps dropping. As I mentioned above I've added aprox. 12 qts. already and am about to add some more. The fluid seems to disappear while using the tractor, the level tends to remain static when not being used. OK, I haven't pressurized the axle yet and won't if there is danger of blowing the seals and of course this makes sense even though I wasn't going to pressurize it that much just enough to see if I could hear air coming out of the vent. Anyway, not knowing where the fluid is disappearing to is starting to freak me out.
In reply to Polo 1665, I appreciate the post, but I have recently been to a Branson dealer (Not Mine) and was looking at a 3510H and it is a totally different animal than the 3510i. Finding any similarities would be difficult at best.
I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this problem specially anyone having the same problem as misery loves company. It would also make me feel that I'm not the only nut case out here.

Hooray, I just found the other member named STRONGMAN who has a Branson 3820 with the same problem although he only casually mentions it at the end of discribing his 50 hour fluid changes.
STRONGMAN, Have you found the source of the disappearing fluid?????
...........warrior160

 

[polo1665]

Sorry to be of no help. I hope you get to the bottom of your problem before you get to the bottom of your oil drum.

Mark

 

[warrior160]

Sorry to be of no help. I hope you get to the bottom of your problem before you get to the bottom of your oil drum.

Mark

polo1665 (Mark) No need to apologize, You tried to help, thats all that counts and I appreciate that..........jerr

 

[gldwing57]

I am by far not an authority on this, although I have other tractors and equipment my 3510 only has 38 hrs on it.

But it would seem to me that if the oil is not leaking externally there would have to be some type of seal letting it go into another part of the tractor.

Obviously its not burning it, so it has to be going somewhere. I will look at mine this eve but can the oil be going into the tranny? Looks like another area would be overfilled. Did you check the other levels

Since it only has 50 hrs is it not under warranty. I would be letting the dealer worry about it if I could.

 

[polo1665]

Warrior,

Have you come up with any ideas yet. I checked the level in my front axle yesterday, it has seen roughly 4 hours of use since I changed it. The level was at max immediately after change, now its down the middle of the range. I will keep any eye on this as mine was also low when I changed it. I just can't imagine where it could be going. The front axle is seperate from everything, only has the drive shaft connected to it correct?

Mark

 

[warrior160]

Warrior,

Have you come up with any ideas yet. I checked the level in my front axle yesterday, it has seen roughly 4 hours of use since I changed it. The level was at max immediately after change, now its down the middle of the range. I will keep any eye on this as mine was also low when I changed it. I just can't imagine where it could be going. The front axle is seperate from everything, only has the drive shaft connected to it correct?

Mark

Mark, As you probably know my 3510 is gear drive and yours is hydrostatic, that being said I would assume your transmission connects to the front axle with a drive shaft the same as mine and yes the resevoir of the front axle is isolated from any other part of the tractor, this I believe is common to all Bransons. As I stated before misery loves company, but I'm sorry to hear you are having a similar problem. All I can suggest is that we both check the forum every couple of days to see if anyone is adding anything that may help or have answers to where the frak the fluid is going.

 

[Strongman]

Hooray, I just found the other member named STRONGMAN who has a Branson 3820 with the same problem although he only casually mentions it at the end of discribing his 50 hour fluid changes.
STRONGMAN, Have you found the source of the disappearing fluid?????
...........warrior160[/QUOTE]

Hi Warrior,

Unfortunately I have not found the source of the disappearance of the fluid. In fact I just checked BOTH dipsticks on my 3820 and one side is fine, but the other side doesn't even read on the dipstick - and my barn (cement floor) is quite level. The only difference between the sides is that I have the wheels sort of cranked to one side where I parked it, so I thought I would re-check both sides once the wheels are straightened back out. I have around 80 hours now and haven't needed to add any fluid since I added it at around 40 hours, so my problem isn't as severe as yours. I'm confused as to why the two sides wouldn't be approximately equal if they share the same reservoir like everyone states, and it has been sitting for quite some time. Sorry I haven't been much help, I'll let you know if I come up with anything

 

[warrior160]

Checked all possible ways on my 3510i the front axle fluid could have been escaping, the bottom line, it wasn't. After adding somewhere between 12 & 14 quarts of fluid (sorry I couldn't be more precise than that), the level finally stabilized at the full mark on the dipstick. Where Branson got 7.5 quarts from in their manual is beyond me. Beware of Branson's data, the life of your tractor could depend on your scrutiny. This volume error on their part caused me a lot of grief and unnecessary wasted time.

 

[Reg]

OK, I'll ask the obvious question - sorry if it sounds as if I'm "talking down".

When you drained out the oil presumably you caught it in a drain pan.
I'll presume that you disposed of it responsibly...
How much came out ?
In round numbers; 1 1/2, 2, 2 1/2, 3 gallons maybe ?
My guess is that it should have been pretty close to what you had to put back - and if so there should be no mystery about where it has been going to.

BTW, sorry I didn't get on this thread earlier.

Hahh !
The Century reprint of the Kukje workshop manual says 7 quarts, the Branson reprint says 7 liters.
Mayhap they mean "PER SIDE" ?
(-:

EDIT:
Here's a general thought on oil levels in axles and how much it matters.
If the crown wheel dips into the oil it will pick it up and fling it around.
It will almost certainly fling it out to the outer bearings where it will
"hang around".
I doubt that there is any benefit in trying to totally immerse all the
final drive components in oil.
I'm not saying that the dipstick isn't the manufacturer's recommended
fill level, clearly it is.

I have done "change all fluids" preventative maintenance on junker cars
that my off-spring have bought for not much more than a month's
high school lunch money. Surprisingly little oil has come out of several
rear axles that were still very quiet for the (indicated) mileage.
I doubt that running "only 7 quarts" of oil in these front axles is likely
to lead to an early demise.
JMAO, etc.
:END EDIT

 

[DavesTractor]

I'm not at the shop, so I don't know the capacities, but when you fill the front axle, you must wait for a while and let the fluid make it's way through the bearings and into the outer hubs on both sides. So it is normal if you check it immediately after filling to see it full and minutes later for it to be real low. Put more in and check it 10 minutes later, then do it again, and finally check it again after about an hour. However once it reads good after sitting for a little while, it should remain good. The only place it can leak is on the ground or into the shaft that supplies power to the front axle. If the pinion seal failed, it could conceivably put some oil into the driveshaft cover, but not much.

 

[bobmisi]

Checked the front differentials on my 3820 today after plowing snow, and both dipsticks were not showing any fluid. So off to Napa I went and added almost a gallon. It's probably a little too full now but I'm going to drive it a short didtance and let it settle, then recheck it. Tractor only has 60 hours on it, so this is a real concern to me. I will be at my dealers this week to be sure. When you buy a brand new tractor you should not have to put up with this crap. That's why I bought a brand new tractor. Has anyone out there gotten any answers on this problem from any dealer? If not , it appears to be time to contact the Branson rep and get an answer, as this could cause serious damage to the front drive mechanism. No tractor that is one year old should require this much constant attention, just routine checking every so many hours, not every time you use it.

 

[warrior160]

Bobmisi, I totally agree. That's why I started this thread in the first place. I had about 60 hours on my 3510i when I started to notice the front axle fluid being low. Branson doesn't seem to know the fluid capacities on their own equipment. Read my entries from the beginning.
JM

 

[gldwing57]

I have same problem I have 2 gallons in mine now and am still waiting on answers. You woulkd think a deaer would chime in and give some exact amount or explanation.

 

[Reg]

My guess/explanation is that there was a translation error in the manual.
Not language, but units of measure.
OK, OK, OK, so liters are slightly larger than quarts,
but pints are about half of that and and a discussion of whether or not the English reading market measures things in pints, quarts or liters could easily lead to a x2 or x/2 error, and/or another factor of two if one translator was talking about the whole axle and another translator was talking about only one side.

Bottom line, it takes what it takes and the anecdotal evidence seems to be that a) It takes about twice what the manual says and b) running it at the 1/2 level doesn't seem to hurt (other than the mental anguish factor of not showing up on the dip-sticks) at least in the short term.

If the level drops you have a leak, investigate that and fix it.


OTOH, maybe the dip-sticks are just too short ?
(-: