3 point pto post hole digger

[kiotiken]

Good point- that's where I was trying to steer in terms of the extra capacity reservoir that GRSthegreat uses for his hydraulics to keep the temp down by using additional hyd fluid to keep it from overheating when running hi demand implements.

This is actually my point with the backhoe. When I'm in the diggn' mood, there's never a moment where multiple cylinders aren't using fluid. Swing cylinders, dipper stick, boom, bucket, they're all filling/emptying at the same time. I'm not sure what the difference would be with a hydraulic motor. You take a break from digging to move the tractor and you take a break from drilling for the same reason. The tractor isn't in motion for either task.

It's actually an important issue to me, I'm planning to put a broom on the front of my tractor in the next year or two to clear the rink in the winter. It will be continuous use while the tractor is moving, so I need to make sure my tractor is up to it.

 

[bcp]

Hydraulic

Motor-spool: In the neutral position fluid is allowed to flow back to the tank. This allows the operator to run a hydraulic motor under load and, when the valve is shifted to stop flow to the motor, allows the motor to coast to a stop.

Cylinder-spool: In the neutral position fluid is blocked from flowing to the tank. This effectively locks the load in place and should be used in applications where a load is to be raised and held aloft with a hydraulic cylinder.

 

[murphy1244]

It has to do with flow, Hydraulic motors use bigger hoses and pumps.

 

[TomSeller]

When I asked my dealer about the front mounted hydraulic post hole diggers for my 45hp Kioti he advised that, being hydraulic, they were not capable of achieving the same power as a pto driven post hole digger.

I am not sure where he comes up with that. I have the Danuser 1025H and it is not shy on torque. Check out the torques listed on the attached link. On hydraulic augers it is the pump pressure that governs the torque. GPM governs the rotational speed.

http://www.danuser.com/attachments/auger-systems

I much, much prefer a hydraulic SSQA with the ability to reverse and put down pressure on the bit.

 

[murphy1244]

I am not sure where he comes up with that. I have the Danuser 1025H and it is not shy on torque. Check out the torques listed on the attached link. On hydraulic augers it is the pump pressure that governs the torque. GPM governs the rotational speed.

Auger Systems | Earth Augers | Diggers | Danuser

I much, much prefer a hydraulic SSQA with the ability to reverse and put down pressure on the bit.

Ideal gpm on that unit starts at 15 to 20. That ep6 that Teds talking about might do it but Kioti advises against running a hydra motor.

 

[TomSeller]

Ideal gpm on that unit starts at 15 to 20.

Right, which matches 2 of my tractors.

 

[kiotiken]

Ideal gpm on that unit starts at 15 to 20.

Depends on which one you looked at. From his link, here's a couple sized for tractors.

Model 8300 | Hydraulic Auger | Danuser

 

[GreenWannabe]

Does anyone have any information about how many GPM will actually flow through the rear remote valves and connectors on a DK45SE? I don't know if the full flow of the hydraulic system is actually output to the attached implement. Thanks.

 

[murphy1244]

Does anyone have any information about how many GPM will actually flow through the rear remote valves and connectors on a DK45SE? I don't know if the full flow of the hydraulic system is actually output to the attached implement. Thanks.

That's the problem, its only 1/4 line.

 

[Coyote machine]

This is actually my point with the backhoe. When I'm in the diggn' mood, there's never a moment where multiple cylinders aren't using fluid. Swing cylinders, dipper stick, boom, bucket, they're all filling/emptying at the same time. I'm not sure what the difference would be with a hydraulic motor. You take a break from digging to move the tractor and you take a break from drilling for the same reason. The tractor isn't in motion for either task.

It's actually an important issue to me, I'm planning to put a broom on the front of my tractor in the next year or two to clear the rink in the winter. It will be continuous use while the tractor is moving, so I need to make sure my tractor is up to it.

KK, I believe you've convinced yourself that what you want your tractor to do is what it will do, regardless of some design limitations. The EA guys actually said that they have not had any complaints from customers with the augers, 'when properly matched with their tractor'. That is not the same as assuring one that it will work with YOUR tractor and it's inherent fluid flow, designed to run with very specific implements, NONE of which are running hydraulic pumps as part of the implement's fluid loop.
You obviously can do whatever you choose, but after all the effort the KIOTI guys put into saving your butt when you went from the undersized JD to the undersized 'lemon' first Kioti you had next, to this current DK with cab, I'd sure hate to see you decide to push it beyond it's limitations and possibly do damage to your hydraulics circuit, especially since you are running an HST unit.
If it were me I'd look into renting a skidsteer with the attachment already on it and do whatever holes you need 'dug' then return it. No contamination possibility and a tool suited to the job at hand with NO risk of damaging your tractor.
And as far as a front mounted broom- is a PTO driven broom not a possibility for your DK?
Just seems like you'd be back in the same dilemma with it as the front mounted auger.

 

[Kioti Tom]

Go to ETA and check out the rotary brooms for compact tractors. They are not cheap and you can get a hyd power setup for additional money (also not cheap).

I must agree with Coyote Machine and recommend using a skidsteer for the hyd PHD. You would be
ahead and no chance of damageing your DK.

Just my :2cents: worth.

Tom

 

[Gittyup]

Don't get the hydraulic motor phd on tractors. Just get a pto driven one with a down pressure cylinder. Why force it.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Don't get the hydraulic motor phd on tractors. Just get a pto driven one with a down pressure cylinder. Why force it.

I'm sorry, but it is funny to me for you to say to use hydraulic down pressure, and then say "why force it". When that is exactly what you would be doing, is forcing it. The hydraulic down pressure kits work quite well by the way. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[SSdoxie]

The reason Kioti Manual says to NOT run hydraulic motor is; there is no oil cooler in the loader/remote/3pt circuit. The smaller of the 2 gear pumps sends oil through the steering unit, through the cooler, then back to hydrostatic pump for charge pressure, then gets dumped back into the rear differential to mix with the loader circuit oil. Running a "continous flow under pressure" of the loader/rear remote circuit could cause overheating and damage the pumps on HST. An hydraulic PHD is more of an intermittent operation, unless it is in very hard ground and takes several minutes to dig a hole.
Running a hydraulic broom to sweep snow could be hazardous to the system, even though, this would be in cold weather. If I was to do this, I would run 1/2" hoses full length to boom to mimimize pressure drop and put an oil cooler in the return line coming back from the broom.

 

[TomSeller]

It only takes me about 30 seconds to dig a post hole with my hydraulic Danuser. I don't even worry about heating the fluid. I do have fairly ideal soil, however.

 

[Coyote machine]

The reason Kioti Manual says to NOT run hydraulic motor is; there is no oil cooler in the loader/remote/3pt circuit. The smaller of the 2 gear pumps sends oil through the steering unit, through the cooler, then back to hydrostatic pump for charge pressure, then gets dumped back into the rear differential to mix with the loader circuit oil. Running a "continous flow under pressure" of the loader/rear remote circuit could cause overheating and damage the pumps on HST. An hydraulic PHD is more of an intermittent operation, unless it is in very hard ground and takes several minutes to dig a hole.
Running a hydraulic broom to sweep snow could be hazardous to the system, even though, this would be in cold weather. If I was to do this, I would run 1/2" hoses full length to boom to mimimize pressure drop and put an oil cooler in the return line coming back from the broom.

Excellent description of potential pitfalls! Does your PH Auger run off 3PH or loader on your bobcat?

 

[JD 4520]

I have a ROTOMEC PHD sold by John Deere. I am wondering if there is a down force kit for this unit? I haven't seen one. The design is generally different than other PHD's that I have seen with a down force system.

 

[GreenWannabe]

I have a ROTOMEC PHD sold by John Deere. I am wondering if there is a down force kit for this unit? I haven't seen one. The design is generally different than other PHD's that I have seen with a down force system.

According to the documents on ROTOMEC's web site, they do. See the links for PDF files on this page: ROTOMEC USA - Products - Rotary tillers

 

[kiotiken]

KK, I believe you've convinced yourself that what you want your tractor to do is what it will do, regardless of some design limitations. The EA guys actually said that they have not had any complaints from customers with the augers, 'when properly matched with their tractor'. That is not the same as assuring one that it will work with YOUR tractor and it's inherent fluid flow, designed to run with very specific implements, NONE of which are running hydraulic pumps as part of the implement's fluid loop.

No, I'm not convinced of anything. I started a thread 8 months ago to get feedback on building a hydraulic broom and I'm only relaying what I'm told by my dealer regarding the PHD. My dealer matches a hydraulic PHD to my Kioti tractor, EA sells them with no complaints and we have another TBN member saying he loves his hydraulic PHD and it works well. My own sense tells me the intermittent use of a PHD is not going to be a huge issue and I wouldn't have an issue using one that my dealer assures me is a good match for my tractor. For now it's still under warranty and they can't really claim abuse if they gave me the implement.

And as far as a front mounted broom- is a PTO driven broom not a possibility for your DK?
Just seems like you'd be back in the same dilemma with it as the front mounted auger.

No, I'm already switching between the blower and zamboni attachments on the back. The idea is to have 100 gallons of hot water in the zamboni, run around and sweep the ice and then flood it. I have no use for a broom in the summer months.

The reason Kioti Manual says to NOT run hydraulic motor is; there is no oil cooler in the loader/remote/3pt circuit. The smaller of the 2 gear pumps sends oil through the steering unit, through the cooler, then back to hydrostatic pump for charge pressure, then gets dumped back into the rear differential to mix with the loader circuit oil. Running a "continous flow under pressure" of the loader/rear remote circuit could cause overheating and damage the pumps on HST. An hydraulic PHD is more of an intermittent operation, unless it is in very hard ground and takes several minutes to dig a hole.
Running a hydraulic broom to sweep snow could be hazardous to the system, even though, this would be in cold weather. If I was to do this, I would run 1/2" hoses full length to boom to mimimize pressure drop and put an oil cooler in the return line coming back from the broom.

Thanks. As I said, I have started a thread about building a hydraulic broom, but this issue has never come up. I didn't realize the manual says not to run a hydraulic motor. I will discuss this with my dealer if I decide to go forward with it and I like your idea of a in-line cooler. I might also butcher my existing walk behind broom and use the engine on the attachment. In the end, this might be the easiest, safest and cheapest way to get it done.

 

[TomSeller]

As I posted earlier, my hydraulic auger is not a problem since the use is intermittent as mentioned. The motor has low inertial momentum (term?) so the motor doesn't "keep going" once I remove the power. Also, I am using a standard spool valve so I am jot "slamming" the port closed. By the time I center the spool the auger has stopped. If I had either a continuous-use motor or a high inertia motor, I would think differently.