3 point lift issues

[skramer360]

I have a New Holland TC30 with a hydraulic issue. It seems like it could be kind of a generic hydraulic issue, not necessarily a New Holland issue, so I am posting it here. I have a loader on this tractor. It is not the New Holland one, but it is made for my tractor. The lift capacity for the loader is supposed to be somewhere around 1000lbs. The lift capacity of the rear 3 point is supposed to be around 1600lbs. I was trying to lift one end of a log that weighs about 1700lbs. The rear would not lift it off the ground, so I tried with the front loader and it lifted it without issue. When I tried to lift it with the rear hydraulics the loader control valve was making noise and two of the hoses were vibrating and pulsing could be felt in them. I was using a boom pole and I have lifted more than this in the past with it without any trouble. The lift capacity of the front loader appears to be what it should be. I was leaning toward the relief valve in the loader spool as the issue, but wanted to ask the wiser community here.

 

[rScotty]

Your tractor is fine. Lift is not really measured in pounds; it is measured as a constant torque or lift ability around the rear pivot of the lift arms.
The units of measurement are ft*pounds and that is a measure of torque available.

To work with this we take the pounds of the load times the distance from the rear arms pivot point out to that load.

Your rear lift arms are two feet long, and can lift 1600 lbs at the ends of those two feet lift arms. So the basic constant lift ability of the TC30 is two feet times 1600 lbs = 3200 foot*lbs. The lift torque never changes. It is simply the product of distance and load.

Attaching a boom pole increases the distance from pivot point to load. That then reduces the amount of load that you can lift. If the boom 8 feet long, you will be able to lift 3200/8 = 400 lbs load.

Hope this helps,
rScotty

 

[careyo63]

Just came up using a boom pole and increase the lifting on a small compact. I've seen a electric winch used. Some tractors you can lock the 3pt. in a raised position and the Elec. winch for lifting. They said it did work really well. Keeping the front wheels on the ground was the biggest problem from the weight.

 

[skramer360]

One thing that may have been missed is that I said that I have lifted more than this attempt in the past with the boom pole and had no issues.

 

[careyo63]

If you have a manual for the TC30 Look for the Hyd. Section Filters, screens etc.. How many Operating hrs. are on it. Is it due for Sev. Change? Clean the Fluid, Filters Etc.. Where I would start to check if not known.

 

[rScotty]

One thing that may have been missed is that I said that I have lifted more than this attempt in the past with the boom pole and had no issues.

Well, one thing that will help is to have the boom pole as vertical as possible. That shortens the horizontal distance to the load, and allows the boom to lift more weight.

The specs say that with the load attached to the end of an 8 foot boom sticking out nearly horizontal to the load, then the TC30 3pt can only lift about 400 lbs. But if the boom is at a 45 degree angle when you start the lift that 3pt can lift 565 lbs. And it quickly gets better the higher the boom is when the lift begins.

It's possible to design a 3pt to lift just about any load. Most tractor 3pts are designed around how much 3pt lift torque will cause the front end to come off the ground.

 

[Mike1955]

It’s going to be interesting to me to see if there is a problem here, or not. Scotty thinks not. The one thing I’m sure of is most times the owner is correct on the operation of his equipment. And Scrammer is sure his lift is failing.

 

[rScotty]

It’s going to be interesting to me to see if there is a problem here, or not. Scotty thinks not. The one thing I’m sure of is most times the owner is correct on the operation of his equipment. And Scrammer is sure his lift is failing.

Could be. Most 3pts have a test port for a pressure gauge. Hopefully the TC30 does. Then an inexpensive 5000 psi gauge screwed into the test port will tell us for sure.

One gauge and a couple of lifts will allow the OP to compare the gauge and shop manual specs. Then he can see if the hydraulic pump is reaching pressure, how the 3pt lift cylinder is holding, and also the setting of the relief valve.

 

[Harry in Ky]

I have a New Holland TC30 with a hydraulic issue. It seems like it could be kind of a generic hydraulic issue, not necessarily a New Holland issue, so I am posting it here. I have a loader on this tractor. It is not the New Holland one, but it is made for my tractor. The lift capacity for the loader is supposed to be somewhere around 1000lbs. The lift capacity of the rear 3 point is supposed to be around 1600lbs. I was trying to lift one end of a log that weighs about 1700lbs. The rear would not lift it off the ground, so I tried with the front loader and it lifted it without issue. When I tried to lift it with the rear hydraulics the loader control valve was making noise and two of the hoses were vibrating and pulsing could be felt in them. I was using a boom pole and I have lifted more than this in the past with it without any trouble. The lift capacity of the front loader appears to be what it should be. I was leaning toward the relief valve in the loader spool as the issue, but wanted to ask the wiser community here.

I can't help but ask. Does your loader valve have six lines or seven? It SHOULD have seven. If only six, that might help explain PART of situation.

 

[Mike1955]

Just to keep it simple, leverage is a really good point in this discussion. And what’s difficult for me and everyone else except skramer are not physically there to observe this. So I can see it being a problem with the machine. I’ve never use those formulas to figure weights and distances, but I have no reason to say they don’t work. Time will tell

 

[dougtrr2]

I have wonder about the weight estimate on a log. What species, recently dropped, or dried out, setting on top of the ground or somewhat sucked into the earth. Two logs of the same dimensions can vary greatly in weight.

Doug in SW IA

 

[careyo63]

The FEL on my Ford is a basket type filter to catch dirt and Debris. I had a Hose swell at a bend on the inside of it. Done the exact same thing small Squeal and hoses would show movement. I just Serv. it. New fluid. Cleaned the stainer basket and when I started it back up made it worse!
It didn't really squeal much but the hoses did fibrate. Pulled it back down. lucky I found the problem! Looked inside the hoses and seen it about pinched off. Replaced that section and it's been smooth and operating AIS..
The tractor was NTM and just had it split for a clutch replacement. The shop mentioned they thought something didn't sound right with the FEL.. The man knew his Tractors! Local and been in business for decades. Why I Serv. it.
Decades ago NTM. Yanmar and it does has a 3Pt. Valve on it you can close and lock it. I forgot and didn't open it and it Squealed Super loud. Lift handle raising it. After that I use Jack stands on the 3Pt. implements. The Hyd. 3Pt. lock is the round knob just under the seat.

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[SPYDERLK]

One thing that may have been missed is that I said that I have lifted more than this attempt in the past with the boom pole and had no issues.

Yes. The 3ph is essentially an imperfect four bar linkage. When perfect this lifts a weight without pivoting it. Distance of the weight outward from the lifting force is immaterial except its effect on backtip. Yours still had >850 lb at the boompole lift point.

Something is wrong now. That noise is a check relief valve chatter - pressure with nowhere to go cycling back to sump. Try disconnecting and carefully re connecting all the QCs in your power beyond circuit -those two hoses. Outgoing and return. >> fault on return??

 

[rScotty]

I have wonder about the weight estimate on a log. What species, recently dropped, or dried out, setting on top of the ground or somewhat sucked into the earth. Two logs of the same dimensions can vary greatly in weight.

Doug in SW IA

We cut 40 some full size ponderosa pine in the last couple of years. For those, cured logs weight 2/3 of what fresh green logs weigh. Fully dried wood in rounds or splits is about half of green weight.
Harder woods are heavier, but less of their weight is water.

 

[rScotty]

Yes. The 3ph is essentially an imperfect four bar linkage. When perfect this lifts a weight without pivoting it. Distance of the weight outward from the lifting force is immaterial except its effect on backtip. Yours still had >850 lb at the boompole lift point.

Something is wrong now. That noise is a check valve chatter - pressure with nowhere to go. Try disconnecting and carefully re connecting all the QCs in your power beyond circuit -those two hoses. Outgoing and return. >> fault on return??

Spyderlk, I suggest you change the length of the top link and look at what happens to the lifting force at the end of the boom pole. You will see that the available lifting force The force follows the distance from the lower arm pivot.

I believe the valve noise is the 3pt relief valve, not a check valve. The 3pt system goes into relief simply because it is being asked to lift more than it can.

rScotty

 

[careyo63]

Back to the remedy of a Electric Winch. 5000 Lbs. At HF. 179$ Then only a couple cheap pullies would be needed HF. 8$ stainless steel. If the 3Pt. is rated 1600 Lbs. this is a easy and simple solution. Worst case front end weight added! or load the FEL bucket.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Spyderlk, I suggest you change the length of the top link and look at what happens to the lifting force at the end of the boom pole. You will see that the available lifting force The force follows the distance from the lower arm pivot.

I believe the valve noise is the 3pt relief valve, not a check valve. The 3pt system goes into relief simply because it is being asked to lift more than it can.

rScotty

Hi rScotty
Unfortunately the 3pt is not a perfect //ogram linkage so the difference between simple leverage and the result from its articulated action is not as clear. Its there though.
> Heres an experiential puzzle that will leave you scratching your head 'til you get it. -- Try lifting a fully connected BP from all the way out at the tip. Why is it so hard? The visually apparent leverage just isnt there.
---------------------------------------------------
Youre right. Thanks for the prompt. I meant relief valve, more than likely located in the loader valveblock. Hence the jumping hoses. I will edit to correct the nomenclature.
larry

 

[DarkBlack]

Yes. The 3ph is essentially an imperfect four bar linkage. When perfect this lifts a weight without pivoting it. Distance of the weight outward from the lifting force is immaterial except its effect on backtip.

Scotty is correct. With the lower lift arms near horizontal, if you double the distance of the weight from the lower arm pivot points, you halve the lift capacity.
Triple the distance, your capacity is at 1/3.
Angles below and above horizontal, reduce this effect slightly.

 

[DarkBlack]

To the OP: Make sure your lifting rods are connected to the most rearward holes in the lower links for maximum lifting force , not the more forward holes.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Scotty is correct. With the lower lift arms near horizontal, if you double the distance of the weight from the lower arm pivot points, you halve the lift capacity.
Triple the distance, your capacity is at 1/3.
Angles below and above horizontal, reduce this effect slightly.

Wrong.