2310d 4wd problem

[kfin]

No they don't. But they are much closer to it than the other. It does look centered for the most part. Still looks like something somebody broke and did not want to spend $40 to replace do the welded a piece of 1/8" flat stock on there....

My main question for the drop box is what would keep the lower gear and the axle stub from turning when it is in 2 wd and the 2 gears are disengaged.

 

[winston1]

No they don't. But they are much closer to it than the other. It does look centered for the most part. Still looks like something somebody broke and did not want to spend $40 to replace do the welded a piece of 1/8" flat stock on there....

My main question for the drop box is what would keep the lower gear and the axle stub from turning when it is in 2 wd and the 2 gears are disengaged.

As I understand it it does turn freely since the drop box is not installed. It is only with the drop box installed that it locks up. With the drop box installed, drive shaft removed, can you turn the output shaft by hand when the lever is in the two wheel drive mode? If so, you need to start considering Normde's advice.

 

[kfin]

With the drop box installed, drive shaft removed, can you turn the output shaft by hand when the lever is in the two wheel drive mode? If so, you need to start considering Normde's advice.

No this is what I am asking........

Present Scenerio
Drive shaft is removed
drop box is off the tractor
When locked in 4wd, I can spin the gears and the axle turns.....and vice versa, I can turn the axle and the gears both turn
But when I take it out of 4wd, I cannot turn the axle or the lower gear

 

[kfin]

When both the drop box and drive shaft were on the tractor, the front tires worked fine when it was in 4wd.

When I put it in 2wd, the front tires began skidding and not working.....

 

[kfin]

Aaron thought the front end was fine because when the drive shaft was off the tractor, the front axle stub that the drive shaft connects to is still turning when the tractor moves.

 

[winston1]

No this is what I am asking........

Present Scenerio
Drive shaft is removed
drop box is off the tractor
When locked in 4wd, I can spin the gears and the axle turns.....and vice versa, I can turn the axle and the gears both turn
But when I take it out of 4wd, I cannot turn the axle or the lower gear

With the drop box in your hands and this: "But when I take it out of 4wd, I cannot turn the axle or the lower gear"

You need to look closely as to why, surely can't be that complicated. Not that many parts there.

 

[kfin]

With the drop box in your hands and this: "But when I take it out of 4wd, I cannot turn the axle or the lower gear"

You need to look closely as to why, surely can't be that complicated. Not that many parts there.

I just noticed that part last night, knew it did not work in 2wd when on the tractor but did in 4wd...did not have much time to mess with it last night as I wanted to watch basketball but after work tonight I'm gonna check it out. And you are correct, there are not many pieces in there, surely to goodness it can't be complicated.

 

[California]

Could some prior mechanic have installed a gear or shift collar backward? Or worst case, if yours doesn't match its parts manual could this be a drop box off something else?

 

[kfin]

Could some prior mechanic have installed a gear or shift collar backward? Or worst case, if yours doesn't match its parts manual could this be a drop box off something else?

Yes that could have happened easily with a prior mechanic...but there is not really a manual for the 2310d, the closest thing is the 246 so nobody is really sure on that part. A lot of the things are identical and some are a bit different. I know for a fact that the part of the lever going down from the stem is a piece of flat stock that got welded on there, no way it is a factory piece.

I may just tear the seal off of it tonight and take it apart and see exactly what is going on. Will definitely play with it some as I want to get it fixed when I get my parts in to fix the rear end.

 

[winston1]

If it is not a factory piece it may surely be part of the problem. Still trying to figure out why you can't see what is locking it up when in 2 wheel drive mode. :confused3:

 

[kfin]

Ok, while watching a basketball game this afternoon, I brought the drop box in to work on it...wife was not overly thrilled about it but she let it slide.

The two parts I think are both, or one of them, messed up are the front shift arm (which I have been calling the lever) and the front shift block which is the little piece that fits on the end of the front shift arm and slides into the groove on the end of the lower gear and moves it back and forth when put in or taken out of 4wd.

It never comes out of the groove when shifting into and out of 4wd and I really don't think it is supposed to. It appears to me that it is designed to spin to stay lined up with the groove as it moves forward and backward. I pushed it back to go in 4wd and watched everything work properly again, then pushed it forward to watch it all lock up again. Began to take the shifting lever off. A bolt and roll pin later it was loose. I then tapped the front shift block out of the lower gear groove and voila! It spins as it should.

While it was pushed back I tried spinning the front shift block around 360 degrees. It catches on the pin it fits onto and will not turn all the way around. So I think I have a front shift arm that somebody fabricated themselves and it isn't quite right. Or maybe it worked for a while until the balls came out the front and jammed things up or maybe it finally jammed and that is what through the front balls out...don't know.

But I am going to get my parts ordered Monday for the rear end of the tractor that is all torn apart and I'm going to pick up both pieces (front shift block and arm). Then put them in and see what happens. There is nothing else that it could be in my feeble brain.

 

[California]

Sounds like you might have parts there made by some poor VN guy who was given a block of steel, a file, and a two week deadline ....

Or more realistically, a blacksmith.

 

[kfin]

Okay, tonight I finally had a few minutes to take the drop box apart. For anybody trying to take apart...take off the front collar and seal, I managed to save the collar but the seal will need replacing. Then you have to take off the top gear which is held on by a roll pin and another big pin. Once off you can push the gear and "axle stub" forward and backward and without actually taking the bearing off and removing it, you can get the front shift arm and block out.
Here are 3 pictures from slightly different angles. This may be original but I can't imagine that it is, looks to me like it was fabricating by one of the previous owners. The problem was the block was not fitting in the groove very well and was binding up so that it would not turn freely.

Might be able to straighten it out and I could try it to see if it works. I could test it while still off and see if the stub turns after straightening in 2 wd which is my problem. Or just order the front shift lever tomorrow when I call and order my axle, all my gaskets and some other assorted minor fixes that are going to happen now. I hate wasting money but am leaning toward just replacing it if the part isn't too bad and knowing what I have in there when put back together.

What are your guys thoughts?

 

[normde2001]

Replace the part. it's obviously bent and probably lost any tempering it might have had and would just bend again. According to pictures that's the OEM part.

 

[winston1]

In my opinion trying to force one of these in or out of 4 wheel drive when gears are not aligned or in a bind is what caused the bending. If gears are aligned and not in a bind movement should take very little push.

Looks like they are listed from $40 to $100. Not sure which yours uses. Normde is telling you the right way in replacing it but cheap skate me would straighten and if satisfied I would reuse it. Not the correct way, just my way.

After taking a second look at your pictures I am wondering if the the round part the block slides over is in good condition? Picture makes it look sort of flat. Does the block fit on it ok without excess wobble?

 

[kenmac]

Guess I'm like you winston.. I would put it in a vise, heat it if I had too ,and straighten it,but that's just me

 

[careyo63]

What a Ghetto Rig!! I'm not putting that back in my Tractor to find out it is weak and have to got through it and replace "IT" and the Seals Etc. AGAIN!!!! You 2 can do what you want.

 

[kfin]

Got all my parts ordered for both projects just now from Hoyes...only thing they did not have was the frigging front shift arm. They are looking around for me.

 

[kenmac]

What a Ghetto Rig!!

LOL.. I've repaired ,and made many parts that have worked just like new..
Making things work is nothing new to me...In my business,, you have to make things that will work all the time

 

[Neat 1500]

Looks like it's been in a vice before and had a whackin'. Yeah give it another touch up but if in doubt maybe replace it if you can find one.