2 single acting cylinders 1 remote

[thendrix]

I want to build a hay accumulator out of an old trailer frame and I need to be able to work 2 tables with 1 remote (2 ports 1 handle. Handle up activates 1 port handle down activates the other port). My thought is to have a ramp with an elevator chain, probably a #55 floor chain, that is ground driven some how. The bales will "climb" the ramp and when 2 reach the top end to end I will activate 1 single acting cylinder to "flip" the bales onto the main table. When the handle is released the small table will return "home". When the main table is full I want to use another single acting cylinder to dump the bales and when I let go of the handle the main table returns "home". Think something similar to a very small bale wagon. Make since? I may need a spring or something to help the tables return quick enough but that's yet to be seen. Thoughts?

Like this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yxA3CpRvna0

I realize this isn't exactly what I described but this is the general idea

 

[Rustyiron]

I think you could IF once your first table is (gravity) back down in a resting or bottom'd out, then your second cyl is the same before you could use the 1st. again. (By moving the valve to the other position, either extended cyl. will retract)
If you need to leave a table "up", a simple "selector valve" with 4 ports - one for each cylinder and 2 (supply & return) from your existing valve will work, a little cumbersome to operate though. Should be about $70.

 

[CCWKen]

Sounds too much like needing another pilot to operate it. If you're making it mechanically driven, why not make the whole operation mechanical and skip the hydraulics? If the operation is timed to the "ramp", you just hop on the tractor and drive. No need for constantly watching and working valves. Or have the mechanism activate the valve automatically. The older I get, the more I look for ways for tools to save me work.

There's lots of different ways to put ground driven power to use. Old differentials, sprockets and chains, etc. And funny thing about hydraulic wheel motors. They're just as happy pumping fluid as they are turning wheels or sprockets.

 

[kennyd]

You will need some sort of selector or "diverter" valve, to do what you want.

If you hook it up this way as you wrote:

(2 ports 1 handle. Handle up activates 1 port handle down activates the other port)

Then there is no way for the fluid in the cylinders to get back to the tank.

 

[CCWKen]

You will need some sort of selector or "diverter" valve, to do what you want.

If you hook it up this way as you wrote:


Then there is no way for the fluid in the cylinders to get back to the tank.

Could you explain that? When the valve is activated one direction, the other port is opened to valve output. Hopefully, the output is routed to the tank.

The SA cylinders will need some hefty springs to return with any speed though. I wouldn't rely on gravity unless the table(s) are a couple hundred pounds.

 

[kennyd]

Could you explain that? When the valve is activated one direction, the other port is opened to valve output. Hopefully, the output is routed to the tank.

The SA cylinders will need some hefty springs to return with any speed though. I wouldn't rely on gravity unless the table(s) are a couple hundred pounds.

You are correct...I blame morning fuzz :laughing:

BUT: I'd still suggest some type of selector/diverter, so he can have independent control of the two cylinders, otherwise every time one cylinder is actuated-the other will retract.

 

[CCWKen]

After re-reading the OP, a single valve won't work for what he wants though. Sounds like he wants the cylinders activated independently from one another with a single valve. No can do. :confused3:

 

[thendrix]

Let me explain my thinking a little. On my tractor you pull the handle up to activate one port and down to activate the other. This may be what is meant by 2 remotes? I was under the impression that 2 remotes would have 4 ports. I don't understand why with this setup I would have to have the small table home before activating the large table? If the cylinders return due to gravity or Springs or whatever then I should be able to activate the large table while the small is coming down. Can't go the other way because there's nowhere to put the bales with the big table up. The big table will probably be roughly 9 to 10 ft by 3 to 4 feet framed with 2x2 tubing and a sheet metal top. I'm guessing it will weigh a couple of hundred pounds. The small table I'm sure won't weigh enough to return home fat enough without help. It will be 6 to 7 feet by 20 to 22 inches. There's no need to leave one up and activating the other as the small has to work before the big one. I'm thinking the biggest hurdle will be getting the small table back down fast enough to not have to crawl on the tractor. I'm not looking for a speed demon but more then a slug. Bales are usually spaced about 30 ft or so apart maybe a little more and I would like to run around 5 or 6mph. Not comfortable going faster due to the terrain. Check out the link I posted originally. That's my idea but doing it with hydraulics rather then switches

 

[oldnslo]

Thendrix,
On your existing valve you have two work ports that I will call "A & "B". When you move the lever up pressure goes to "A" & "B" is connected to tank. When you move the lever down Pressure goes to "B" & "A" is connected to tank which is how a double acting cylinder works.

Like others have stated you either ned more valving or got mechanical.

 

[kennyd]

Let me explain my thinking a little. On my tractor you pull the handle up to activate one port and down to activate the other. This may be what is meant by 2 remotes? I was under the impression that 2 remotes would have 4 ports.

You have just 1 Dual Acting remote.

The point is that when one cylinder is extending-look at the orange side in the drawing Ken posted above, the blue side will be open to the tank and will want to retract-and vise-versa. You cannot move just one cylinder by itself.

 

[CCWKen]

Let me explain my thinking a little. On my tractor you pull the handle up to activate one port and down to activate the other.
No sir. You are activating both work ports when you move the handle in either direction. As Kenny explains, one port is pressure the other port is return. Moving the handle the other way just reverses which port is pressure.

This may be what is meant by 2 remotes?
No sir. One valve, one remote. A "remote" has a pair of ports. When one port is supplying pressure, the other port is returning fluid to the tank.

I was under the impression that 2 remotes would have 4 ports.
They do. But you can't operate remote-1 (port pairs) with the remote-2 valve.

I don't understand why with this setup I would have to have the small table home before activating the large table? If the cylinders return due to gravity or Springs or whatever then I should be able to activate the large table while the small is coming down.
Cylinders don't return on their own. You have to activate the valve to allow fluid to exit the cylinder through the output port of the valve and back to the tank.

If you want the tables to act independently, you need more than one valve.

 

[CCWKen]

Check out this homemade hay bail stacker. I think this is ingenious. It even alternates each layer.
4 Bale Stacker FOR SALE - YouTube

If you want to keep it simple, use one table that tosses a single bail when it comes out of the shoot. This is a little hard on the bails though.
Rolling Oaks Farm - Hay Baling on June 19, 213 - YouTube

 

[thendrix]

I sure don't mean to beat a dead horse but I'm still confused by what you guys are saying vs what I saw. When I run my moco (JD 1219 with a single acting cylinder to raise and lower) with my tractor I only use one port. I have to put a chain (weight) across the remote handle to hold it down and bump the revs up to make the mower raise to pull the transport pin. When I get back on the tractor I take the chain off, the handle returns home, and the mower goes down. This is why I had the idea to run 2 single acting cylinders with one remote. Or do I have a problem in my valve that allows the fluid to return without the handle going to the other position?

 

[Leejohn]

For the guys that know more then me about motor spool valves. Do you think he could use a motor spool valve, like a 4 way 3 position with work ports open in center?

 

[kennyd]

Or do I have a problem in my valve that allows the fluid to return without the handle going to the other position?

I think you may, if the handle is in neutral (it is 3 position (ON-NEUTRAL-ON) correct?) then the fluid should not be allowed to leave the cylinder-it should hold whatever position it is in. If your mower is lowering in neutral, then you either have a motor spool valve where both ports are open to the tank, or your valve is defective.

I can assure you that hanging a chain on the handle is not SOP (standard operating procedure) for remote operation unless your trying to get constant flow to something like a logsplitter or backhoe.

 

[kennyd]

For the guys that know more then me about motor spool valves. Do you think he could use a motor spool valve, like a 4 way 3 position with work ports open in center?

If he is going to the effort to add a valve, he should just add a second one that will control the second cylinder-and use the first original valve to control the other (if it's not bad however given what he last described)

 

[thendrix]

Ok. A possible problem explains why I had to use the chain. Would you folks mind elaborating a little on the other ways besides hydraulics to achieve what I'm after?

 

[thendrix]

I think you may, if the handle is in neutral (it is 3 position (ON-NEUTRAL-ON) correct?) then the fluid should not be allowed to leave the cylinder-it should hold whatever position it is in. If your mower is lowering in neutral, then you either have a motor spool valve where both ports are open to the tank, or your valve is defective.

I can assure you that hanging a chain on the handle is not SOP (standard operating procedure) for remote operation unless your trying to get constant flow to something like a logsplitter or backhoe.

Is there something I could look for on my valve to verify if it is a motor spool valve? From your comment I assume that if it's not a motor spill valve then I do have a problem.

Thanks to everybody so far for the help. I forgot to say that before

 

[kennyd]

Can you post a picture of what you have? Including any numbers on the casting. Is the tractor really an AC CA?

It may be easier in the long run just to add a new two-spool valve replacing the single one you have now-then you know exactly what you have.

Here is one should work for you: 2 SPOOL 8 GPM PRINCE MB21BB5C1 DA VALVE

 

[thendrix]

Can you post a picture of what you have? Including any numbers on the casting. Is the tractor really an AC CA?

It may be easier in the long run just to add a new two-spool valve replacing the single one you have now-then you know exactly what you have.

Here is one should work for you: 2 SPOOL 8 GPM PRINCE MB21BB5C1 DA VALVE

It's funny you mention a CA as I have one but, no, this tractor is a 1980 Long 610. I'll get a picture one day this week. Getting 70,000 baby chickens tomorrow so I'll be a little busy for a few days. LOL