Snow 1998 jd 5210 temp gauge problem

[nelg]

I have a 1998 jd 5210. It has a problem with the temperature. When I go out in the morning to start it the temp hand goes halfway as soon as I turn the key to the on position. I have replaced the thermostat and the temp sensor. It does not do it all the time, maybe a short in the system. Is there an after market individual temp gauge that would work. Any thoughts are welcome. Thanks. Nelg

 

[JD5210]

Temperature sender is a variable resistor that responds to changes in coolant temperature. Low coolant temperatures cause high resistance. High temperatures cause low resistance.

Here is some test you can make. All should be made with the engine OFF and the key in the run position. Connect wire from temperature sender to ground using a jumper wire. Gauge should indicate HOT. Unplug the sender wire and the gauge should indicate COLD. If this test fail you will need to test the wiring and the cluster. At this point I disconnect the negative cable on the battery and Ohm test the wire from the sender to the cluster.

I have attached a copy of the wiring diagram.

Insure the ground on the front wiring harness is clean.

 

[nelg]

thanks for the help. problem solved.

 

[ckesey]

I'm a little late to this thread but I'm having the very same issues with my 5210. Is the temp sensor towards the back of the engine on the top? Do you know what this sensor should (ohm) read cold? When I unhook what I think is the correct sensor (with key on engine off) the guage goes to far end (cold).

 

[JD5210]

The coolant sender is located in the back of the engine on top. The ohm is

60 C (140 F) 134 ± 13.5 ohms
90 C (194 F) 51.2 ± 4.3 ohms
100 C (212 F) 38.5 ± 3.0 ohms

 

[ckesey]

Thanks for the help here. Taking the connector off will cause the gauge to go to the far left (as if tractor is cold) and shorting it to ground causes the gauge to go to the overheat position.

I've ordered a new water temperature sensor part number RE51774.

Hopefully this will correct my issue.

Thanks again.

 

[ckesey]

Ok....picked up a new sensor today but after installing the problem hasn't changed. When I turn the key on (70 degrees outside and not been started all day) the handle goes directly to the middle.

I messured the old one from the spade connector to threads and it ohms out at 490. Again this is out of the tractor at aprox 70 degrees.

Any ideas what I can can check next?

 

[JD5210]

The ohm readings I posted came out of the tech. manual (TM1716). Make sure where the negative battery cable attaches to the frame is clean, when I purchased my tractor the temp gauge was bouncing around until I cleaned the connection.

Any chance you have some old electronics laying around that you take a resistor from and put it in place of the temp. sender? There are a number of tables on the net to match colors to resistance. Lets hope the problem is not in the cluster.

Low chance this is the problem, put you could check the wire from the sender to the cluster, by ohm testing it, should be 0. First remove the negative battery cable at the frame, it is easier to get this off then the connection at the battery. If you take off the panel the key switch is on, then the left cowl, you should be able to reach in from the side and pull the connector off, it will be the large connector.

Do NOT remove the cluster, I only say this because if you do not tighten the screws that hold the cluster in place correctly you might break the glass.

 

[ckesey]

I will try what you suggest but it will need to be daylight before I can begin.

I ran the tractor a little while to get it up to temp. At 155ｰ from the brass threads to the spade connector it reads 80 ohms of restance.

 

[ckesey]

The instrument cluster wasn't as hard as I thought to pull out. I pulled the bigger connector from the back of the pannel and tested the white and black wires (next to each other in the harness. They tested 145 ohms (tractor has cooled off a bit so I would think this is normal. I pulled the connector on top of the sensor on the engine and these two (white and black wires at the back of the instrument cluster) went open. To me this would confirm the wires and sensor are reading to the back of the cluster. Would you agree? When I put the harness back in it buries the needle in the red.

 

[JD5210]

I suggest you ohm test just the white wire (359) from the cluster to the temp. sender, that should read 0, since there should be no resistance.

More resistance in the circuit, the colder the gauge reads, so if now it is reading hot would lead to believe the white wire has a break in it and is touching the engine. This test will help confirm that. With the cluster plug unplugged and sender disconnected, connect the ohm meter to white wire at the sender, touch the other probe of the ohm meter to a clean spot some place on the engine, if you get any reading the white wire is bad.

Over the years the white could have rubbed against something and worn off the plastic coating and is now touch something/ground.

When you say - They tested 145 ohms- I am unclear as to how you had the ohm meter connected. Was it ohm meter connected to sender connection and other ohm probe connected to engine? If this is how you had it connected you are now ohm testing the cluster and I have no guess what that is.

 

[ckesey]

I'm got some test results here.....

Disconnecting the white wire at the sender on the engine and testing that to the white wire in the harness (at the back of the instrument panel) = 0.01 Ohms

Disconnecting the white wire at the sender on the engine and checking that to a good frame ground = 3.54M Ohms

In the harness going into the instrument panel there is a white wire (going to the sender that I just tested) and a black wire right next to it (assuming this is a ground) = 770 Ohms.

Tractor hasn't been started all day and is aprox 65 degrees outside.

Des this point the finger to the instrument guage?

 

[JD5210]

I'm got some test results here.....

Disconnecting the white wire at the sender on the engine and checking that to a good frame ground = 3.54M Ohms

For this test was the connector plugged into the instrument cluster? If yes, the white wire is bad as this test should result in no ohm reading since it is an open circuit when not plugged into the cluster.

Yes the black wire you reference is the ground wire, for the cluster.

I have started my tractor when it was 90 degrees outside and the needle did not move off cold until the tractor was running for several minutes.

 

[ckesey]

For this test was the connector plugged into the instrument cluster? If yes, the white wire is bad as this test should result in no ohm reading since it is an open circuit when not plugged into the cluster.

Yes the black wire you reference is the ground wire, for the cluster.

I have started my tractor when it was 90 degrees outside and the needle did not move off cold until the tractor was running for several minutes.

No for these test all connector and harnesses were disconnected so I could test on the pins directly.

Does this point to something in the instrument panel?

Can anything in the cluster be serviced? It seems from JD parts site that it's sold as one unit.....very expensive I'm sure.

 

[JD5210]

The cluster is all one unit and I have NOT read where anyone has had it repaired and yes it is expensive part number RE232258 from JD is $577, plus you need a $81 kit to program it for 3 cyl as it comes programmed for 4 cyl. No switch on the back to change from 3 to 4 cyl as your current cluster has. This is why I am sounding like a pain in the XXX, to make sure I understand how you are doing your tests.

My mistake (brain faster than fingers) plugged in thread #13 should have been unplugged. Let me try again.

If the white wire was disconnected/unplugged from the cluster and from the sender and one probe of the ohm meter was connected to the either end of the white wire and the other probe was on grounded to the tractor and you got a reading the white wire is bad as you should get no reading.

 

[ckesey]

The cluster is all one unit and I have NOT read where anyone has had it repaired and yes it is expensive part number RE232258 from JD is $577, plus you need a $81 kit to program it for 3 cyl as it comes programmed for 4 cyl. No switch on the back to change from 3 to 4 cyl as your current cluster has. This is why I am sounding like a pain in the XXX, to make sure I understand how you are doing your tests.

My mistake (brain faster than fingers) plugged in thread #13 should have been unplugged. Let me try again.

If the white wire was disconnected/unplugged from the cluster and from the sender and one probe of the ohm meter was connected to the either end of the white wire and the other probe was on grounded to the tractor and you got a reading the white wire is bad as you should get no reading.

I don't blame you here....I'd hate to buy a new one and have the same problem.

Disconnected at both locations, the meter did show 3m ohms between the connector and a frame ground. If I understand this correctly, that's a (very) high short but has got me wondering why the meter shows anything.

When the rain stops, I'm going to see I can get the harness open without breaking it. If I can I can pull the white wire out of it and jumper a new wire from the sensor into the harness. I could cut the white wire a few niches from the harness and use a butt connector to a new wire....but I hate to cut anything until I can confirm this is my issue.

For now I'll use a short piece of wire outside the panels and out the side of the hood until I see the results of this test. If this is the problem I can run this inside the panels and make it permanent.

 

[JD5210]

This further indicates to me the white wire has a break in it and is touching the engine/ground. With the ohm reading be 3 explains why the gauge is going to hot. I take you are talking about taking apart the connector that is in the engine compartment. You could then test the white wire at sender and ground. Then test at the instrument cluster plug and ground. Plan for it to be a pain to get that connector apart and put back together.

Not suggesting you do this, but here is some pictures of my old cluster. I am using my battery charger as power source and a resistor as the temp. sender. In picture 1 the resister is a 100 ohms and in picture 2 the resister is 50 ohms.

 

[ckesey]

This further indicates to me the white wire has a break in it and is touching the engine/ground. With the ohm reading be 3 explains why the gauge is going to hot. I take you are talking about taking apart the connector that is in the engine compartment. You could then test the white wire at sender and ground. Then test at the instrument cluster plug and ground. Plan for it to be a pain to get that connector apart and put back together.

Not suggesting you do this, but here is some pictures of my old cluster. I am using my battery charger as power source and a resistor as the temp. sender. In picture 1 the resister is a 100 ohms and in picture 2 the resister is 50 ohms.

The reading on the meter shows 3M ohms (which I'm assuming is million) not 3 ohms....however this should be zero in my mind. I'm going to see what I can do to get a new temp wire to the panel and see if anything changes.

I'll let you know the result.

Thanks for the help this far.

 

[ckesey]

The reading on the meter shows 3M ohms (which I'm assuming is million) not 3 ohms....however this should be zero in my mind. I'm going to see what I can do to get a new temp wire to the panel and see if anything changes.

I'll let you know the result.

Thanks for the help this far.

Ok at this point I'm almost sure it's in the cluster. I was able to pull the retaining clip off the harness and with a pair of needle nose pliers was able to work the white wire (359) out of the harness. After I plugged the harness back in, I then took a piece of wire and push it into the harness. The other end of the wire I ran to the side of the hood and touched it to the sensor on the engine block. When I turned the key on it goes to the same position....top center. I can remove the temp wire from the sensor and the needle goes to the far left. Touching it to a frame ground makes to go to the far right (in the red).

I've got an idea I've been testing with. I took the panel out and removed the glass. I then connected the panel (without the housing) and turned the key to the on position. Once it reached top center I took the needle off and "repositioned" it to the far left (since the engine is cold). Now when I turn the key on it doesn't move.

I then started the tractor and let it run for 15-20 mins. By this time the block temperature measured 120 degrees. The needle then showed (a little to the left) of center. This may not be a permanent fix but I'm trying to avoid buying a whole new one.

Now my concern is how to get this glass back in. I've worked at it for 30 mins and still can't get it. When I tighten up the screws in the back the gasket around the glass doesn't get pulled in to hold it.

Any advise here?

 

[Tx Jim]

You might call this place to see if they repair your cluster. Ag Express in Indiana phone #765-533-4809