1962 Deere 2010 Overheating

[Tbone07]

Just got my grandpa's '62 JD 2010 (gasser) running after ~8yrs of sitting. We had slight overheating problems the last time it was running. So I got it running again (carb rebuild, new fuel lines, distributor rebuild, plugs and wires, all fluids changed, etc.)

The overheating issue we had is still occurring. Here's what happens, and what I've done so far to troubleshoot:

1. Temp gauge very gradually raises past the "N" normal mark.
2. Coolant eventually starts pushing out of the overflow tube by the radiator cap.
3. Radiator is 100% clean and free of debris after I blew out every single fin with compressed air.
4. Fan belt is pretty tight and fan is moving as it should.
5. I replaced radiator cap with one from another tractor, coolant still pushes past cap and out overflow.
6. Brand new cap is on it's way as I'm not 100% that the cap I tried is 100% good.
7. Will replace thermostat as it's cheap insurance. But I think if the thermostat was bad it would overheat much more quickly?
8. Radiator I believe is the original, and may need replaced. What's the best way to test the radiator?
9. I'm going to flush the entire system this weekend when I do the thermostat and new cap.


Anything else I should check? The only other thing I was trying to verify is that the water pump is working correctly. How can I check that it's actually flowing coolant?

Also, how can I tell if the OEM temp gauge is operating correctly? I'm considering replacing that as well. It appears to be working "ok". Seems to raise and lower according to usage.

Thanks

 

[Bill Guenthner]

Worn out water pump would be the next thing to check, not enough flow.

 

[Tbone07]

Worn out water pump would be the next thing to check, not enough flow.

I definitely want to check this. But I'm not sure how to go about it. I've ensured the radiator was full, cap off, and ran the tractor (cold) and looked to see if I can see flow. But I'm not sure how much I should really be seeing.

 

[Tx Jim]

I definitely want to check this. But I'm not sure how to go about it. I've ensured the radiator was full, cap off, and ran the tractor (cold) and looked to see if I can see flow. But I'm not sure how much I should really be seeing.

When you looked into open radiator neck when engine was 1st started cold did you see any air bubbles in coolant? if so engine compression is getting into cooling system

 

[Tbone07]

When you looked into open radiator neck when engine was 1st started cold did you see any air bubbles in coolant? if so engine compression is getting into cooling system

I looked for this condition and didn't see it. But I will check it again. The coolant only starts pushing out the overflow when the engine gets warm. So I could let the engine get a little warmer while the cap is off and check I suppose

 

[Zebrafive]

Use a "temp gun" to check various spots on the radiator as it gets hot. A low reading would indicate a plugged area inside the radiator. You may have internal radiator cores that are plugged.

 

[5030]

Sounds to me like a still blocked radiator. Just 'blowing it out' really does little. You need to flush it out with water repeatedly. I suggest getting a Radiator Genie and using that. Your gradual temp rise tells me the rad is still blocked up.

I flush my rads every evening when I come in from the fields. Could be the water pump or the cap or the t'stat but I'd start with the obvious, the rad.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Get some powdered soap for a dishwasher and put a cup in your water. Run that for a week or so and drain into a bucket, see if gunk comes out. Dishwasher soap don't foam.

 

[beenthere]

...............

I flush my rads every evening when I come in from the fields. ...........

Interesting. How do you go about doing that every evening?

 

[5030]

Simple. pull it up to the shop, do a fluid check, top them off from the bulk diesel tank and wash out the rad from the fan side outward with my radiator genie. I always got crud out of the rad, every evening. I wash out the charge air cooler and the ac condenser as well.

Weekly I'll check the tire pressure as well and grease them too and every week they get a bath as well. I don't like filth and crud. I'll usually use a foam cannon to apply car wash to them and then rinse them off with a low pressure tip on the pressure washer. I usually use 'Chemical Guys' car wash concentrate.

I keep them looking sharp and clean always.

 

[beenthere]

I misunderstood.. as thought you were differentiating between a "blow out" and a "flush out" in your post #7.

To me, a "flush out" is cleaning the inside workings of a radiator, not just the outside between the fins.

Think the OP here has internal cleaning needed, not external, and needs a "flush out".

 

[5030]

I believe he needs both actually, just blowing out the radiator externally without a pressure water flush won't dislodge all the crap and I bet there is a load of junk on the inside as well probably from not renewing the antifreeze in a timely manner. I change and flush my tractor cooling systems every 2 years. Drain the coolant, replace with fresh tap water and add a non sudsing detergent and run them until at operating temp (t'stat open fully) and run them an additional 30 minutes. Drain and flush again with clear tap water and add a mixture of 50 percent ethylene glycol and water. My tractors manufacturer (Kubota) recommends old style AF. When I refill them I also add DCA4 as it prevents the coolant from deteriorating. The OP's comment about the temperature slowly rising tells me the rad is not transferring heat properly.

 

[rScotty]

I use a garden hose spraying from the inside next to the fan forward. Lots of dish soap and a soft brush. It's easy to get the outside of the fins looking like new. A pressure washer could bend those fins & cause all kinds of problems.

If it's an old JD radiator it's worth saving and rebuilding. See if there is a radiator shop locally who does that kind of work. It takes a real craftsman to take one apart, clean it, and put it back together but it will be better than anything you can buy.

If that doesn't sound good to you, I've used Prestone Radiator FLush. It's an acid in crystalline formthat you put in the radiator for 15 minutes and then flush agan and again with a garden hose for an hour.... If done correctly it is as good as a rebuild. Incorrectly means you just bought a radiator.

To check if the OEM gauge and thermostat is working correctly you can simply run it without the radiator cap. Check the water temperature with a candy thermometer. When idleing & not working hard, the engine thermostat should keep it between 190 and 200F so it is well below boiling and the cap is not necessary. If it climbs past 205 shut it down and replace the thermostat and do the radiator cleaning inside and out as discussed. I've seen leaky water pumps, but never seen a water pump fail to move sufficient water. It was always something else. If the thermostat and cap are working right, most engines will do a density thermocycle circulation at idle enough to keep below boiling even without a water pump rotating at all.

To check a thermostat take it out, read the degrees printed on the top, and put it in a full pan of hot water along with a candy thermometer. It should open up at about 190 to 200 degrees. If it doesn't open until 220 there is your problem.

All the pressure cap really does is enable the engine when working hard to exceed 212F for short periods without boiling over. It sounds like yours is working.
luck,
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

Oh, I see that the 2010 is a gasser. There is one more thing that will cause them to run hot. I doubt this is the problem, but it could be. Especially so if someone has messed with the distributor and moved it too far retarded (in the direction of the distributor cap's rotation = retarded). If so, get a timing gun and read the manual. There is a port where you can set the timing visually.

OR...also simply check the distributor points. If the cam follower and points themselves have worn and are no longer opening to their normal 0.015 full opening that will also ****** the timing. That is easily fixed. You can easily adjust the points with a screwdriver so that they open about the thickness of a matchbook cover - use an actual cover or feeler gauge - and that will be close enough.

An engine with retarded timing will start easily, idle smoothly, not develop full HP at higher RPMs, and will overheat - but usually not overheat dramatically. It takes a while.

Above all, while you are diagnosing and fixing this problem take care NOT to overheat the engine for any high heat or long time. In other words, don't "just use it and hope it fixes itself." Overheating is how almost all old engines are ruined. If they don't overheat and have some sort of oil in them they will last forever.
rScotty

 

[Tbone07]

Oh, I see that the 2010 is a gasser. There is one more thing that will cause them to run hot. I doubt this is the problem, but it could be. Especially so if someone has messed with the distributor and moved it too far retarded (in the direction of the distributor cap's rotation = retarded). If so, get a timing gun and read the manual. There is a port where you can set the timing visually.

OR...also simply check the distributor points. If the cam follower and points themselves have worn and are no longer opening to their normal 0.015 full opening that will also ****** the timing. That is easily fixed. You can easily adjust the points with a screwdriver so that they open about the thickness of a matchbook cover - use an actual cover or feeler gauge - and that will be close enough.

An engine with retarded timing will start easily, idle smoothly, not develop full HP at higher RPMs, and will overheat - but usually not overheat dramatically. It takes a while.

Above all, while you are diagnosing and fixing this problem take care NOT to overheat the engine for any high heat or long time. In other words, don't "just use it and hope it fixes itself." Overheating is how almost all old engines are ruined. If they don't overheat and have some sort of oil in them they will last forever.
rScotty

Awesome thank you for all this advice. I rebuilt the whole distributor, plugs, wires, points, condenser, etc. I'll double-check my timing.

I use a garden hose spraying from the inside next to the fan forward. Lots of dish soap and a soft brush. It's easy to get the outside of the fins looking like new. A pressure washer could bend those fins & cause all kinds of problems.

If it's an old JD radiator it's worth saving and rebuilding. See if there is a radiator shop locally who does that kind of work. It takes a real craftsman to take one apart, clean it, and put it back together but it will be better than anything you can buy.

If that doesn't sound good to you, I've used Prestone Radiator Flush. It's an acid in crystalline form that you put in the radiator for 15 minutes and then flush again and again with a garden hose for an hour.... If done correctly it is as good as a rebuild. Incorrectly means you just bought a radiator.

To check if the OEM gauge and thermostat is working correctly you can simply run it without the radiator cap. Check the water temperature with a candy thermometer. When idleing & not working hard, the engine thermostat should keep it between 190 and 200F so it is well below boiling and the cap is not necessary. If it climbs past 205 shut it down and replace the thermostat and do the radiator cleaning inside and out as discussed. I've seen leaky water pumps, but never seen a water pump fail to move sufficient water. It was always something else. If the thermostat and cap are working right, most engines will do a density thermocycle circulation at idle enough to keep below boiling even without a water pump rotating at all.

To check a thermostat take it out, read the degrees printed on the top, and put it in a full pan of hot water along with a candy thermometer. It should open up at about 190 to 200 degrees. If it doesn't open until 220 there is your problem.

All the pressure cap really does is enable the engine when working hard to exceed 212F for short periods without boiling over. It sounds like yours is working.
luck,
rScotty

Ya I know this is definitely OLD OLD coolant. I'll drain the whole radiator and block and re-test with water and dish detergent this weekend.

To my knowledge it's the original Deere radiator. And I know a local guy who restores old radiators that can rebuild if necessary.

The pressure cap is definitely letting coolant by, and out the overflow. The temp gauge is halfway between "N" and "H". So I don't think it's boiling. I have an infrared thermometer I can check temps of the water entering and exiting the radiator.

I'll know more this weekend. Thanks everybody.

 

[Tbone07]

I believe he needs both actually, just blowing out the radiator externally without a pressure water flush won't dislodge all the crap and I bet there is a load of junk on the inside as well probably from not renewing the antifreeze in a timely manner. I change and flush my tractor cooling systems every 2 years. Drain the coolant, replace with fresh tap water and add a non sudsing detergent and run them until at operating temp (t'stat open fully) and run them an additional 30 minutes. Drain and flush again with clear tap water and add a mixture of 50 percent ethylene glycol and water. My tractors manufacturer (Kubota) recommends old style AF. When I refill them I also add DCA4 as it prevents the coolant from deteriorating. The OP's comment about the temperature slowly rising tells me the rad is not transferring heat properly.

It's clean from the outside I promise you that. I painfully went through every single fin and blew it out with compressed air, checking with a flashlight.

But you're right I absolutely need to flush the radiator multiple times and recheck. God only knows when it was last flushed.

Thanks for the help