1700 glow plug / thermostart

[fig]

Alright guys; forgive my ignorance and bare with me because I am "beating a dead horse" and not real familiar with diesel engines.
I guess I have some misconceptions about what a glow plug / thermostart system actually does. In a past post that I had (2000 to 1700 thermostart); one of the replies talked about the thermostart system actually burning fuel in the manifold. I also received some great information on where to find a possible replacement. I went to a Thermoking dealer/service center this afternoon and looked at their glow plugs and was told that the glow plug only heats the intake air. So now I am kinda cornfused.
Did earlier thermostart systems actually burn the fuel to heat the air in the intake and later versions just heat the air? I looked at one glow plug for a 2 cyl. yanmar and the end looks like a spiral coil and does not have an oriface for fuel to drip through. If I installed this type of glow plug; would it work the same as the thermostart system?
Sorry for the long post and thanks to everyone that responded in my other post.

 

[normde2001]

Ah, confusion, glowplugs are not thermostart and vice versa. Most yanmars do not have glowplugs, but just rely on compression for ignition; however, thermostart actually starts a small fire in the intake manifold from igniting fuel dripping from the small bottle to aid in cold weather starting.

 

[Inspector507]

The thermostart plug is like a cigarette lighter element, for lack of better description. It is in the intake manifold. It gets hot and fuel drips on it and ignites. A glow plug which a 1700 or a 2000 does NOT have, and could be in the cylinder, heats the chamber "air" to help ignite the fuel as it's injected.

 

[gbirky]

All thermostart systems for Yanmar burned fuel. I believe the newer F series Yanmars use glow plugs in the cylinders. What you are describing has also been used as a cold weather starting aid. An electric heater heats the fresh air as it passes by the heater. I don't believe Yanmar used this in any tractor applications.

The TS plugs at the Thermoking dealer/service center didn't have the hose fitting on the end for a fuel line? If not, they weren't TS plugs. I don't know how well an inlet manifold heater would work. It seems to me that a very large amount of heat is required, and that something the size of the TS plug wouldn't provide enough heat to do the job. But, I could be wrong.

I don't use the TS systems in my two Yanmars. I put block heaters in both of them. I plug it in about a half hour before I want to use the tractor, and it starts like its 70 deg out. I would definately recommend a block heater over the TS. My YM1301D has one that goes into the water jacket through a threaded hole on the right (exhaust) side of the engine block. I made a pipe with 3/4" NPT spud to go in the lower radiator hose on my YM1110D. I bought a 400 Watt heater from Advance Auto Parts which threads into the spud.

 

[fig]

Greg

Thanks for the responce. You responded to me when I asked about a block heater. I would like to go that route, but I have no threaded ports on the exhaust side of the motor and I don't have enough clearence in the lower radiator hose to install a heater there either. I looked at several different heaters at NAPA, but I can not find anything that will work (hose heater, soft plug heater). Seems like everything I have looked at either won't work or not enough room to install. This is why I have gone to the thermostart. Maybe I can talk the wife into heating the barn (riiiiight)!

 

[Soundguy]

Try a magnetic block heater..

Soundguy

 

[thegreatrandini]

I put a tarp over my trator and put an oil filled elec heater under the tarp. Heats the engine compartment. works great. I just plug it in about an hour before I start the rig. easiest way to do it.

 

[gbirky]

Fig,
I had the same problem with my YM1110D. No threaded holes, and only a single freeze plug - I was reluctant to use the ONLY freeze plug hole on the block for a heater. The lower radiator hose was so short and bent, that I couldn't find a heater that would go on. So I took a short piece of thin walled 1" pipe and cut a piece out of it. I then cut a 3/4" NPT coupling to weld to the 1" pipe at an angle. I then used a 400 Watt 3/4" NPT block heater from Advance Auto Parts. It threads into the 3/4 coupling, and the element goes up into the 1" pipe. I attached a photo of it installed on my YM1110D. I just finished making a second one for the YM1110D I sold recently.

 

[fig]

Greg,
Thanks for the information and picture. I see what you were talking about now. The only reason why that would not work on mine is because the alternator is on that same side, so the fan belt runs around the lower radiator hose making for an even more confined space. If it was not for that, then the hose heater that I looked at at NAPA or one like yours would work. I have come to the conclusion that it is time to call Hoye to see if I can get the whole TS system. Thanks to all for the help.

Newton

 

[normde2001]

It appears that Hoye has the system, (wouldn't you know, he calls it a glow-plug), but it's going to be pricey if you have to buy it piece by piece. My tractor is in N. Ga. and I have never used or needed my TS and am not sure how effective it really is. I believe I would go the tarp/heater route, (electric or kerosene), If I needed cold weather starting help and did not have TS.

 

[ducksjunk]

The T.S. on my YM195 works great. So far I have only had to use it down to 20F but it works great. for colder weather the simplest system is a magnetic electric heater that sticks to the oil pan. They are inexpensive and work very well. Even a child can install it. As with any system a tarp is always a good idea as it helps to keep the heat in.

 

[fig]

Thanks guys! Soundguy recomended the magnetic heater as well. I was assuming that it would be less effective because of being exposed to the cold instead of being inserted (take a long time to heat). Last winter I started the tractor on decompression alone (temp. around 28) but it took SOME KIND of cranking. It seems like 45 - 50 is the line. Anything below takes longer to crank and anything above seems to be no problem.
With a magnetic heater; do you place it on the oil pan or on the block where the water actually enters? I am new to these type of "aids", but it seems like with the thermosyphon, it would work better if it were placed where it would heat the coolant

 

[ducksjunk]

You can probably place it anywhere that there is enough flat surface, but I believe they are designed to heat the pan. I'm sure that the heat in the oil pan would rise thru the engine and accomplish what you want. Although in temps of 20's and 30's the T.S. is a lot more convenient.

 

[Soundguy]

The tarp is a good idea too. I've on ocasion tarped a tractor and put a chicken brood lamp under it shining right on the block the night before I needed to start it in the infrequent 'teen' weather florida gets. Even the crude 'brood lamp' and tarp idea produced superior results.

Soundguy

 

[Glenn1]

My 1700 was not equiped with a glow plug. It had a small container by the valve cover that you filled with deisel. A button on the dash heated fuel before it got to the cylinder.

 

[thegreatrandini]

Go to walmart and for $35.00 u can buy a big oil filled radiator heater. Safe heat!!! u can use it next to a bale of hay if the cord is not frayed!!!! Then go to Harbor freight tools and buy a $5.00 tarp big enough to cover most of your tractor. The have great heavy duty safe extension cord too.
$40.00 and your prob is solved. You can run these heaters from 100 to 1500 watts over 5000 btus... If you have a barn cats you can heat them too. Tarp keeps ur tractor clean.
Heat saves your engine. I use the Thermostart on my 2210 also but I don't think I need it.... Kansas does get cold.......
/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Also I had a VW rabbit diesel once and a 400 watt magnet did nothing.. Freeze plug heater worked great...... of course engine bigger...... a little.....