1700 Engine Rebuild

[jones6780]

Well the day today was absoutletly great. It started off in the low 30's and finished up in the low 70's and not a cloud in the sky. I finally had time to get back to working on the tractor engine. I have priced a clutch alignment tool at $31.00. Now some folks call me tight but, I just can't spend that much on a one time use item. At least I hope I don't need it agan. I wanted to look at the front seal on the transmission and in the process pulled the front shaft out to use as an alignment tool. In the first picture you can see the result. The second picture shows the arm and forks that operate the clutch. The fork was attached to the arm with 2 roll pins and the pins were safety wired in place. The next picture shows the housing (cleaned with new release bearing) and transmission input shaft. The housing was held on by 4 bolts and has an "O" ring and shaft seal. The seal looked good with no signs of leaking but the shaft had a bit of corrosion as it has been sitting up for several years. The last shot is the shaft in use to align the clutch. Oh by the way the end of the crankshaft is tapered and the flywheel mounts with a key and a 2 1/2" nut torqued to 325 ft lbs.
More to come. Let me know if there are particular photos you want to see.

Russell

 

[JC-jetro]

Russell,

Great pics, the kind I can really dig. You'll have this thing puring like a kitten before too long. If possible I'd love to see the picture where you can show pressure plate thickness and brand new clutch disk. Picture of Rocker arm assembly, push rods, cam shaft and stuff like that will be great. This should be quite helpful for many and 1700 owners in particular.


JC,

PS.How about a picture of the rear main seal. did you put a new one there?

 

[Texas Blues]

Nice pics jones! Please keep them coming. I was looking at the throw bearing picture, mine is making noise. Hopefully I wont have to address that too soon.

 

[JB4310]

Looks super clean, did you sand blast the motor, In that fourth pic it looks like it.

I don't know that much about the innards of this machine but am learning.


EDIT: sorry I had you mixed up with Piper pacer who was just doing tranny/clutch work, you already stated you had the block vatted. how about some pictures of the head repair.

Thanks, JB.

 

[jones6780]

Sorry JC, the engine is mounted. Here is a shot through the inspection port with a scale for ref. The engine is getting all new seals so yes the rear is new. The oil pump in the second shot was barely in tolerance on endplay and fine for side clearance. I took the housing and sandpaper to the drill press table and polished off a little. It is a tight .003 now. I guess everyone recognizes new pistons. Be careful installing rings. There are 3 compression rings and all 3 are different. Just follow the book. The bolt is one of 12 that attach the front frame to the block. Notice the wear under the head. The bolts were slightly loose and wore down the threads as the frame moved. I will replace these but I will try to find some that are not threaded all the way to the head. The frame is about 1/2 in thick so the best bolt would have 1/2 unthreaded shank. The last shot is with the steering column removed. You can't do anything but look in the hole or maybe lube the slide for the throwout bearing. More to come.

Russell

 

[JC-jetro]

The last shot is with the steering column removed. You can't do anything but look in the hole or maybe lube the slide for the throwout bearing. More to come.

Russell

Very interesting picture. It took more than 5 minutes to figure it out looking at my own pics as I initially could not identity the access opening till I looked at the bolt spacing on the steering column. I could not guess that in a million years it is hard to find detail as such looking at the manual. My clutch is a good shape and I have about 5/16" of disk material left, seems not much less than a brand new one. Was the rear seal part of the transmission input shaft housing?? was the hole in the bottom of the housing a tell tale hole if you had a seal leak in pic3 from the left in post #1?

Thanks for the great pics.
JC,

 

[jones6780]

Was the rear seal part of the transmission input shaft housing?? was the hole in the bottom of the housing a tell tale hole if you had a seal leak in pic3 from the left in post #1?

The seal is actually the Fwd transmission seal and it is in the flanged end of the housing. The holes you see are on the side of the housing the spring is on top. If the seal leaked, it would run all the way to the end of the housing....Hmmm maybe I should have drilled a hole to let it leak out farther from the clutch??
Anyway I QUIT.....for today. Have you ever looked and not found? I have 3 bolts to mount the injector pump that I can't seem to find. I guess I am looking too hard. Here are more photos. The first is timing gears minus the injector, no bolts remember. Next is the injector and drive gear. I sctatched wittness marks before removal but I will follow the book for timing. the next are a couple of the reworked head all the valves have new seats installed. I haven't started with rockers yet.

Russell

 

[Thumper & Buttercup]

Hey Jones,


That bolt you showed is that a head bolt??? When I had the head shaved on my 9N the machinist gave me a set of washers to put on the head bolts, he had me do the regular torque twice. They never came loose. The washer had a special shape that acted like a lock washer. A machine shop should know what they are.

 

[JC-jetro]

Have you ever looked and not found? I have 3 bolts to mount the injector pump that I can't seem to find. I guess I am looking too hard. Here are more photos. The first is timing gears minus the injector, no bolts remember. Next is the injector and drive gear. I sctatched wittness marks before removal but I will follow the book for timing. the next are a couple of the reworked head all the valves have new seats installed. I haven't started with rockers yet.

Russell

Yep ...I sure have. It all starts out organized for me till I hit a snag, and then
I'll then start getting ahead of myself and lose it all together
A lot of time I use cereal box card board and hand sketch the out line with a sharpie, Poke a holes for the bolts and insert the bolts. No all the bolts are same lengths and hate to put a short bolt in a long hole and vise versa. I use my dremmel tool to put whiteness mark on on parts as well. I have not taken my injector off and it seems that is well timed so I put a mark on mating parts for future reference. I looked at the timing method recommended and it seems pretty easy. I'm impressed by your meticulousness. Things happen, but much of your problems would be non-existent if the previous owner gave a touch of basic (heat removal and proper internal lubrication) TLC .

JC,

Keep the pics coming

 

[jones6780]

My 2 cents worth on injector pumps. Note the first picture of my other 2WD tractor. There are no drain or fill level plugs. I looked on the back side and none there either.
Anyway I got the bolts and mounted the injector pump on my rebuild engine. The second shot shows the wittness mark to align the pump itself. Third is the 3.4 oz of oil to fill the injector. 4 is the flange mount for the gear and 5 is the gear installed. Note the timing mark on the 2 gears and also the wittness mark straight up on the pump gear. With marks aligned and bolted I removed the front fitting spring and plunger from the top of the pump shown in picture 6. I just followed the instructions in the book to use a dial indicator picture 7 and checked the timing one more time. Everything was just right.

 

[jones6780]

More of the story...I used 2 nuts locked against each other to install the studs. Note the location of the short one. Second shot is the head gasket in place. Some of the coolant passages have a black rubber outline to seal, some don't.. The 3rd shot is the spacer that goes on the short stud down in the intake passage. 4th is the head torqued down and last is the rocker arms installed and clerance set for .012. That is all for tonight. Tomorrow is a holiday so I will have more time to work on the tractor.

RusseLL

 

[JB4310]

Nice work. Thanks for the pictures and the descriptions.

Are you gonna put the 2wd back into service also?

That's odd that there's no level or drain plugs in that other pump, what were they thinking there? must have been an early model or they just forgot to drill and tap, the knock outs are there.
Here's a pic of me injecting oil thru that little level hole, your way is easier, JC informed of that as well.

JB.

 

[JC-jetro]

My 2 cents worth on injector pumps. Note the first picture of my other 2WD tractor. There are no drain or fill level plugs. I looked on the back side and none there either.
Anyway I got the bolts and mounted the injector pump on my rebuild engine. The second shot shows the wittness mark to align the pump itself. Third is the 3.4 oz of oil to fill the injector. 4 is the flange mount for the gear and 5 is the gear installed. Note the timing mark on the 2 gears and also the wittness mark straight up on the pump gear. With marks aligned and bolted I removed the front fitting spring and plunger from the top of the pump shown in picture 6. I just followed the instructions in the book to use a dial indicator picture 7 and checked the timing one more time. Everything was just right.

Hey Russell,

Looking better all the time. I'm following your progress intently. Quite curious not to have drain and level plug for injector, at least you had to invert the injector pump alone to drain rather than the whole tractor since you had the injector pump off. Take a look at the thread below and the injector pump question been asked on several occasion.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...tor-pump-oil.html?highlight=injector+pump+oil

Need to study your pics from close.

JC,

 

[jones6780]

JC,
That injector is on the other tractor. I will have to take it off and remove the bottom cover to find out if I can drill, tap and plug in the original cast locations. I haven't decided if I will fix the other tractor or part it out.

RusseLL

 

[JC-jetro]

Nice work. Thanks for the pictures and the descriptions.

Are you gonna put the 2wd back into service also?

That's odd that there's no level or drain plugs in that other pump, what were they thinking there? must have been an early model or they just forgot to drill and tap, the knock outs are there.
Here's a pic of me injecting oil thru that little level hole, your way is easier, JC informed of that as well.

JB.

Hey John,

I know the manual recommended to fill the oil like you've shown. but What i did was I opened the fill from top , drained from the bottom hole. I then opened the level hole, closed the drain hole and used a tiny funnel on top and poured the oil in till it came out of the middle level hole. I then closed the level hole and put the cap on. On many outboard engine filling oil in the lower transmission is recommended as you have shown. I reckon end result is the same.

JC,

 

[JC-jetro]

JC,
That injector is on the other tractor. I will have to take it off and remove the bottom cover to find out if I can drill, tap and plug in the original cast locations. I haven't decided if I will fix the other tractor or part it out.

RusseLL

Russel,

Why would not you drill the hole where it was intended. It seems the casting on the side shows where the drain and level hole needed to be. I hate to drill and tap from the bottom and cause internal injury to the pump guts.

JC,

Your injector shows where the holes need to be drilled and tapped.

Russel, My bad .. I just noticed you were going to do what I suggested . Hate to get stuff in to the pump cavity during drilling and tapping. By the way, do take picture of inside the pump if you will.

My witness mark for the injector pump on the outside.

 

[jones6780]

JC,
In your wittness mark picture I noticed the attach bolt was different from my original bolts that I lost. My bolts were slightly longer and had screwdriver flats to loosen and make adjustments from the outside, without removing the timing cover. You could use a common screwdriver and a wrench to loosen, rotate pump slightly and tighten. The bolts I ordered were the same as yours, common bolts. With the method I used to time the pump I hope I don't have to re-adjust.

RusseLL

 

[JC-jetro]

JC,
In your wittness mark picture I noticed the attach bolt was different from my original bolts that I lost. My bolts were slightly longer and had screwdriver flats to loosen and make adjustments from the outside, without removing the timing cover. You could use a common screwdriver and a wrench to loosen, rotate pump slightly and tighten. The bolts I ordered were the same as yours, common bolts. With the method I used to time the pump I hope I don't have to re-adjust.

RusseLL

Russell,

I don't ink there is a difference between timing mark (witness mark) on the inside vs outside. I don't think it is expected to remove the timing cover off each time you time the injector. In your case you were doing an overhaul and probably could put timing mark on the outside as well.

JC,

 

[jones6780]

The point is that you can not tighten the bolt without the screwdriver flat unless you remove the timing cover. With the screwdriver flat you can loosen, adjust and retighten from the outside.

RusseLL

 

[jones6780]

Here is a picture of the injector pump attach bolts, see the screwdriver flat?

While getting ready to install the thermostat, I noticed an extra hole in the gasket. Sure enough there was a hole in the housing that was blocked with corrosion. I took a drill bit and cleaned it out. In years past we used to punch a small hole in the thermostat for an air vent. This tractor comes with a built in air vent. What this hole does is allow air/coolant past the thermostat so it will fill completly without warming up the engine until the thermostat opens.

Russell