1430 hard to start

[menchhofer]

Hello

Have 1430 about 850 hours. When turning key to start, at times I hear what sounds like a flap opening or closing and starter does not turn. Turning key off and on several times...getting to be more times until starter kicks in and starts engine. My first thought is starter or solenoid or both but not sure. Pretty sure it is not ignition switch on dash panel or the switch on treadle. Need ideas from people with similar experience. What say you guys? Would appreciate any suggestions and thanks

 

[Marks481]

If the solenoid just clicks, but doesn't turn over the starter, that is generally indicative of insufficient voltage.

I had a car that would do that... but only when the engine was really warm in the summer after I had driven some place far from home. Deucedly inconvenient, since it is tough to troubleshoot it in a parking lot somewhere 120 miles from your tools. Always worked great in my driveway. The problem was the wire from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid where it ran by the exhaust manifold was corroded. When hot, resistance would go up, voltage to the solenoid would go down.

Solenoid itself could be going bad; insulation in the resistance on the windings breaking down, so that it doesn't have enough magnetic field to overcome the spring.

When the solenoid failed to spin the starter, I would start by running a wire directly from the battery positive terminal and tap it against the solenoid terminal and see if it works. If so, you problem is either the ignition switch or the interconnecting wiring.

If it doesn't, then replace the solenoid.

 

[cqaigy2]

I had similar, "solenoid just clicks", turned out my battery was the problem. I checked the wires and connections from the battery to the solenoid, including ground side as well. Typically this type of problem is lose connection, bad cable, battery then solenoid.

 

[ponytug]

There is an older thread on this. Check the connections. I've had two crimps fail on the metal side of the crimp.

All the best, Peter

 

[SELKIRK]

I bet it's the solenoid. My 1430 uses a cheap auto (ford? $10-$15) one.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Grounding/Connections both sides, Battery, Solenoid, Starter in that order. Then you look at wiring and key.

 

[ponytug]

Yes, it is a Ford solenoid. I had one fail at the bracket, which is also the ground, leading to...intermittent starting.

I bet it's the solenoid. My 1430 uses a cheap auto (ford? $10-$15) one.

 

[SELKIRK]

Not sure if it's the heat here in Texas or the vibration. But I replaced mine twice. Intermittent starting both times.

 

[menchhofer]

so...replaced starter and installed new battery. Starter solenoid still clicks but not as often as before...completely stumped now.

 

[ponytug]

I had to look pretty carefully at the crimp on the wire from the starter switch and from the Ford solenoid to the Deutz solenoid to see failing crimps. Both mechanically fatigued and wore through from the vibration.
Two other things occur to me; 1) the battery ground cable and the connection at the engine end, (check to make sure it is clean on all sides and that the cable crimp is good and 2) the key switch. I'm assuming that you recheck the battery cables at the battery and the wire from the Ford solenoid to the Deutz solenoid.

If you can run a hot wire to the Ford solenoid starter and it always starts, it is your key switch. (Leave the key switch in run, and carefully, repeat carefully, take power from the adjacent hot lug.) If not, I'd be looking at the cables. I up sized my battery cables when I bought mine on general principles, and added some extra ground leads to the two tub halves and centrally grounded everything on the engine block.

All the best,

Peter

 

[menchhofer]

I had to look pretty carefully at the crimp on the wire from the starter switch and from the Ford solenoid to the Deutz solenoid to see failing crimps. Both mechanically fatigued and wore through from the vibration.
Two other things occur to me; 1) the battery ground cable and the connection at the engine end, (check to make sure it is clean on all sides and that the cable crimp is good and 2) the key switch. I'm assuming that you recheck the battery cables at the battery and the wire from the Ford solenoid to the Deutz solenoid.

If you can run a hot wire to the Ford solenoid starter and it always starts, it is your key switch. (Leave the key switch in run, and carefully, repeat carefully, take power from the adjacent hot lug.) If not, I'd be looking at the cables. I up sized my battery cables when I bought mine on general principles, and added some extra ground leads to the two tub halves and centrally grounded everything on the engine block.





Thanks for the information. I believe I do not have Ford solenoid but will look again

 

[menchhofer]

I had to look pretty carefully at the crimp on the wire from the starter switch and from the Ford solenoid to the Deutz solenoid to see failing crimps. Both mechanically fatigued and wore through from the vibration.
Two other things occur to me; 1) the battery ground cable and the connection at the engine end, (check to make sure it is clean on all sides and that the cable crimp is good and 2) the key switch. I'm assuming that you recheck the battery cables at the battery and the wire from the Ford solenoid to the Deutz solenoid.

If you can run a hot wire to the Ford solenoid starter and it always starts, it is your key switch. (Leave the key switch in run, and carefully, repeat carefully, take power from the adjacent hot lug.) If not, I'd be looking at the cables. I up sized my battery cables when I bought mine on general principles, and added some extra ground leads to the two tub halves and centrally grounded everything on the engine block.



Cannot find a Ford solenoid anywhere. Battery cable goes directly to starter solenoid. Check all connections. All good .I do not get a click from starter solenoid... kind of like a thud when key is turned on. Getting 12 v to starter solenoid good also. Where is Ford solenoid located on 1430?

 

[ponytug]

On my 1445, there is a second solenoid, to the outside of the Deutz starter.
As you can see, the main (+) cable goes to the Deutz, but the control wire (black in the photo) switches the Ford solenoid and the Ford solenoid then applies power to the Deutz solenoid to get it to switch.

Terry told me that the Deutz solenoid is very voltage sensitive, and the Ford relay was needed to get it to switch reliably.

If you don't have the Ford solenoid, I would carefully clean both ends of the (+) cable and see if that helps. If not, I would install one. It is cheap. There is a PT specific "L" bracket to mount the Ford solenoid that shouldn't be too hard to make.

All the best,

Peter

I had to look pretty carefully at the crimp on the wire from the starter switch and from the Ford solenoid to the Deutz solenoid to see failing crimps. Both mechanically fatigued and wore through from the vibration.
Two other things occur to me; 1) the battery ground cable and the connection at the engine end, (check to make sure it is clean on all sides and that the cable crimp is good and 2) the key switch. I'm assuming that you recheck the battery cables at the battery and the wire from the Ford solenoid to the Deutz solenoid.

If you can run a hot wire to the Ford solenoid starter and it always starts, it is your key switch. (Leave the key switch in run, and carefully, repeat carefully, take power from the adjacent hot lug.) If not, I'd be looking at the cables. I up sized my battery cables when I bought mine on general principles, and added some extra ground leads to the two tub halves and centrally grounded everything on the engine block.



Cannot find a Ford solenoid anywhere. Battery cable goes directly to starter solenoid. Check all connections. All good .I do not get a click from starter solenoid... kind of like a thud when key is turned on. Getting 12 v to starter solenoid good also. Where is Ford solenoid located on 1430?