'07 B series rumor mill?

Tom_H · Jan 5, 2007

O.K., I'd like to widen this topic a little. I have hard packed clay on top of concrete like hardpan. At the interface, the claypan becomes harder and harder. The pan surface undulates and the depth through the clay to the hardpan varies greatly.

Recently I used a single tooth sub-soiler on my BX2200 to rip some of this stuff so that a dozer towed carry-all pan scraper could move some soil. In some places, the tooth dug in adequately and in turtle range I could inch along, ripping o.k. In other places, the BX just didn't have the power to pull through. In some places the tooth would submarine lower than I had set the 3ph, in others, it would stay put. I put the old girl through her paces, often getting a running start then lowering the tooth just before reaching the most recently ripped point.

Someone mentioned draft control being a whole different topic than position control. I've seen some plows with small adjustable height wheels. Is this the only method of draft control, or do some 3ph's have an internal mechanism to prevent the cutting bit from submarining?

_RaT_ · Jan 5, 2007

Tom_H said:
O.K., I'd like to widen this topic a little. I have hard packed clay on top of concrete like hardpan. At the interface, the claypan becomes harder and harder. The pan surface undulates and the depth through the clay to the hardpan varies greatly.

Recently I used a single tooth sub-soiler on my BX2200 to rip some of this stuff so that a dozer towed carry-all pan scraper could move some soil. In some places, the tooth dug in adequately and in turtle range I could inch along, ripping o.k. In other places, the BX just didn't have the power to pull through. In some places the tooth would submarine lower than I had set the 3ph, in others, it would stay put. I put the old girl through her paces, often getting a running start then lowering the tooth just before reaching the most recently ripped point.

Someone mentioned draft control being a whole different topic than position control. I've seen some plows with small adjustable height wheels. Is this the only method of draft control, or do some 3ph's have an internal mechanism to prevent the cutting bit from submarining?

My International had draft control. It basically is a hydraulic valve operated via a lever sytem which is part of the toplink 3 pt hitch assembly. It raises the 3pt hitch when the draft valve is triggered. Once the load dimishes, it allows the 3 pt hitch to go back to the position levers pre-determined spot you selected. It works very well. While I have had very little need for it, there are those that do. On my L3830, it is an option. You can adjust the sensitivity of it by changing the toplinks attachment point. That changes the leverage the link places on the hydraulic draft valve and how quickly it reacts.

Volfandt · Jan 5, 2007

I've seen some plows with small adjustable height wheels. Is this the only method of draft control, or do some 3ph's have an internal mechanism to prevent the cutting bit from submarining?

On your BX2200 you'll need a gauge wheel to replicate draft control. I have a long description somewhere on how draft control works but basically the 3PH system has to be designed for draft control meaning it can't be added.
My old Ferguson TE20 had draft control and it worked pretty good when plowing. Harry Ferguson developed draft control on his tractors and partnered w/Henry Ford to add it to his 2N/9N and later 8N tractors.
It worked off of the top links ability to change the point of attack of the tip of the plow by varying the length of said top link. This was accomplished by the top link's connection point on the rearend. The top link connects to a pivoting bracket that is held in place and kept static via a very large spring. The spring can compress and/or expand, lengthening or shortening the toplink dependant upon the forces applied to the plow whilst plowing.
Anyways, you'll need a depth wheel and a quick hand to replicate draft control on your BX.

Raddad · Jan 5, 2007

I don't think you need anything. Just set the lowering speed to slow and drop the impliment to the depth you need, then quickly move the 3 point control lever to the center position and the impliment will go no lower. Changing the length of the top link will change the angle of attack for a more or less aggressive bite.

HayDR · Mar 30, 2007

The CCM hydraulic toplinks and side links with double piloted check valves will arrive at CCM on Monday April 2. Please give us a day to check them in before you call and place your order. We will start taking orders Tuesday April 3. ALL sizes should be available.
Thank you for your patience and support.
Mark Carter

8561 · Mar 30, 2007

And now the rush is on. For any of you debating, I have this top 'n' tilt set-up, it is the way to go. Add TNT to position control and you have it all for 3 point in a small compact tractor.

markanth · Jul 6, 2007

Any information on the replacement for the B7800 to be introduced at the Oct. dealer meetings? hp pto etc?

Thanks, Mark

SDT · Jul 6, 2007

Tom:

Draft control is one of the revolutionary inventions conceived by Harry Ferguson in the 1930 and subsequently adopted by all manufacturers of farm tractors after the Ferguson patents expired.

Oversimplified, it is a method of controlling the draft of an implement by using hydraulic control, and it allows a lightweight tractor to pull a ground engaging implement that it would not be able to pull due to lack of traction otherwise.

Its usefor plowing is nearly universally but who plows anymore.

Aside from ground engaging implements is it normally not used or needed, and is not found on most compact tractors.

Dean

The Gardener · Jul 7, 2007

And the brush hog has a gauge wheel to adjust height.

Can someone please confirm the accuracy of this statement which, to me, makes perfect sense. For any rear implement that has its own gauge wheels, it should not matter which control your PTO has. You just drop the PTO to its lowest setting, and the gauge wheels will assume full determination of the operating height.

I hope this is true. I expect to buy an older, *used* Kubota tractor and a new Woods RFM. I prefer a simple application for mowing. Drop and go is the type of simple I am hoping for.

Thanks,
The Gardener

ronjhall · Jul 7, 2007

The Gardener said:
I hope this is true. I expect to buy an older, *used* Kubota tractor and a new Woods RFM. I prefer a simple application for mowing. Drop and go is the type of simple I am hoping for.

Thanks,
The Gardener

Most Rotary Cutters only have a tail wheel. To control how low front end of Rotary Cutters drops. The 3PH needs to stop in the same position every time.
If you want a Drop and go setup. Then put position control near top of the list of items that you want on the tractor.
Here is a list of abbreviation that are commonly used on TBN. Should help you understand some of the replies better.
Glossary of tractor terms