'07 B series rumor mill?

[8561]

I'd say well over half the people who buy tractors in this size never use the 3pt hitch. I know you guys do, The TBN tractor owner is not typical or reflective of the market as a whole.

Hard to argue with that Neil, you are probably correct. As a dealer, you certainly have a better feel for the wider customer base than those who simply spend their free time here. However, you must admit, not offering an easy and inexpensive upgrade kit for PC is a liability for Kubota.

 

[Bob_Young]

A PC upgrade kit for the B7610 would go a long way towards relieving this complaint. The B7510DTN has PC; wouldn't it be possible to piece together a kit using 7510DTN parts from the parts manual?

But then the differential/tranny housing would probably have to be opened up to install them and that's where the big $ would go.
Bob

 

[IslandTractor]

I'd say well over half the people who buy tractors in this size never use the 3pt hitch. I know you guys do, The TBN tractor owner is not typical or reflective of the market as a whole.

If half the B series customers are just mowing and using MMMs then you are right. Lawn mowing is the real strength of the <30hp B series. I'd imagine that B7800 owners are less likely to see their machines as dedicated mowers however and therefore PC would be an important feature.

 

[8561]

A PC upgrade kit for the B7610 would go a long way towards relieving this complaint. The B7510DTN has PC; wouldn't it be possible to piece together a kit using 7510DTN parts from the parts manual?

But then the differential/tranny housing would probably have to be opened up to install them and that's where the big $ would go.
Bob

I'm not sure how hard it would be to retro one on. I do know that you wouldn't even have to go to the DTN, parts for a B2410 are readily available and it is the exact same machine and drivetrain as a 7610.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

If half the B series customers are just mowing and using MMMs then you are right. Lawn mowing is the real strength of the <30hp B series. I'd imagine that B7800 owners are less likely to see their machines as dedicated mowers however and therefore PC would be an important feature.

Which is why the B3030 is available. Its basicly the same tractor with a position control and a few other deluxe features. The B7800 is made to be a cheaper tractor, I would not change a thing about it.

You can make this argument about the B7610. However if you guys recall about two years ago there was a B2410 which was exactly like the B7610 but with a position control & Armrests. It was cut from the prodcut line because the sales of it where so low. The market is simply not demanding this feature on this size tractor.

 

[WayneW]

Which is why the B3030 is available. Its basicly the same tractor with a position control and a few other deluxe features. The B7800 is made to be a cheaper tractor, I would not change a thing about it.

You mean you would not change:
1. The 3pt lift on the 7800 to increase it to 2630/3030 levels? The 75/7610 got a boost over the 7500.
2. Upgrade the "crappy headlights" of the 7800 to the 7610 ones or even 2630/3030 ones? (no offense to anyone with, said "crappy headlights". Just what I've heard)

A couple things off the top of my head.

YES, the 7800 is a BASIC tractor. But so was the 7500. Kubota upgraded that series to the 7510/7610, which I believe was a great move on their part. The 7510/7610 are much more popular than the 7500 was. I personally looked at the 7500 when it was out, as did the 1700/2100/2400. I got a great machine in the B7610 (in 2004) for about the same money a B1700 would have cost me back in 1999/2000.

You can make this argument about the B7610. However if you guys recall about two years ago there was a B2410 which was exactly like the B7610 but with a position control & Armrests. It was cut from the prodcut line because the sales of it where so low. The market is simply not demanding this feature on this size tractor.

It was cut to be replaced by the 2630/3030 if I'm not mistaken, not that the 7610 killed it off. Let's face it, the CUT (and SCUT) tractors are a HP driven business. What about the B1700? BX1500? If it wasn't for being a "ultra bare bones" machine, or having a Narrow width, the B7410 would be in danger of being dropped do to lack of HP. Not that we need it, though we think we need it. (Does my wife's Nissan Xterra need 265 HP? I think we could do without a few ponies there too)

Though perhaps I've just answered my own question of why the B7800 has not been upgraded to the B7810. If they did so, they'd probably have to increase the HP.
B7500- 21 HP to the 7510/7610 - 21/24 HP (& an upgraded 3pt lift cap)
B1700/2100/2400 17/21/24 HP to the B2630/3030 -26 & 30 hp. (& more lift cap)

Just because these "basic" tractors do not have all the frills of the deluxe models does not make them less attractive to homeowners. It's they're price, how much they can lift and how many HP under the hood. Personally, for about the same amount of money, I'd take an L2800/3400 over a B3030 any day.

 

[Bob_Young]

Guess I got to the market two years too late then. The B2410 would've been a good choice. I couldn't go to the B2630 for the deluxe features because it's too big....same frame size as the B3030 and B7800 as I recall. As it is, the B7610 is almost too big for some of the work I have; so I don't think the bigger machines were really an option. With lots of trees and tight spots, I need the short turn radius and wheelbase.

Maybe Kubota would rather see guys like me go to New Holland for small size WITH Position Control.
Bob (still, I hate complaining about the B7610. I really like the little beast )

 

[IslandTractor]

Maybe Kubota would rather see guys like me go to New Holland for small size WITH Position Control.

Nah, you don't have to go blue. You can stay orange with a Kioti. They all have PC.

 

[WayneW]

After I typed that I realized that I forgot about the B2710/2910. Which are probably the actual predasesors to the 2630/3030. Still adding 1 HP to the line though. But it still wouldn't make sense that the 7610 would replace the 2410. I guess the 2639/3030 replaced BOTH the 2410 & 2710/2910.

 

[art]

The position control is a bit decieving name. It never brings you back to exactly the same position but it is a bit quicker of a reference. The so to speak "3" is not the same coming up as it is going down, naver was and probably never will be. It is close I will say, for most mower applicaltions I recommend check chains to be installed on all applications. For the many operators that have learned on the position control levers that worked properly it is a bit like training some one to drive with the controls in different locations then what they are used to. There is a bit of learning curve to most things. The quater inching valve is great for grading as it works in dedicatated small increments of up or down so for box blading or working wiht back blades it is easy to get adjusted and maintain all the tractor can. For those that have never operated a Position control system the quater inching valve works for them.

 

[IslandTractor]

For those that have never operated a Position control system the quater inching valve works for them.

For those who have never driven a tractor, a horse works for them too.

I understand your point and one can certrainly use quarter inching to accomplish tasks if you don't have position control but name me a decent tractor in real Ag use that substitutes quarter inching for position control. The only reason Kubota doesn't offer it in the base B series is a marketing ploy to convince those who recognize its worth to buy up to the lux models. It would be very rare for someone to choose quarter inching over position control if they had used both.

I accept Neil's point that many B customers don't care but I suspect that is because most of those customers are either using the machines primarily with MMMs and don't use the 3pt at all or they are new to tractors and don't understand the significant advantage of the position control.

 

[ronjhall]

they are new to tractors and don't understand the significant advantage of the position control.

I think that would be the most popular reason. If you do not know what position control is. You would not know what it is until you operated a tractor with it on.
I do not know of another MFG that does not use PC on a 3PH except Kubota.

 

[Raddad]

We have used a B7100 for 4000 hours without position control and now our second tractor is a B7610 without position control. We use both for residential landscaping with a rear rake, front end loader, rotitiller, rear blade, rear mount mower and post hole digger. For 25 years I didn't know what position control was. With gauge wheels on my blade and rake why would I find position control usefull? I have check chains on the mouer. I'm guessing it would only be usefull with a disk or plow and even then I can just look behind me and set the depth. Help me understand why some of you think it's a valuable feature? What impliments require it's use?

 

[IslandTractor]

With gauge wheels on my blade and rake why would I find position control usefull? I have check chains on the mouer. I'm guessing it would only be usefull with a disk or plow and even then I can just look behind me and set the depth. Help me understand why some of you think it's a valuable feature? What impliments require it's use?

Obviously you have worked successfully without PC but that doesn't mean PC is not a significant advantage over a quarter inching system. You adapted to the quarter inching by using gauge wheels, check chains and experience. Certainly that works for you. PC makes it easier and less hassle. Some folks still use check chains and gauge wheels with PC but you don't need to rely on those auxiliary systems.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I accept Neil's point that many B customers don't care but I suspect that is because most of those customers are either using the machines primarily with MMMs and don't use the 3pt at all or they are new to tractors and don't understand the significant advantage of the position control.

Yup. I've said this a dozen times, but it needs said again. You guys are not typical of the average tractor buyer. I'd say well over half of the machines sold will never have an attachment put on the 3pt. Same things goes for standard rear remotes, I probably install remotes on 1 out of every 20 B-Series, and 1 out of every 10 L's. Why put extra cost into these things if the consumer is not using them? A vest majority of B-Series tractors are used as TLM's, the average tractor owner does not want (or have room for) a garage full of implements. I can understand why some of these features would be nice to have, and I do understand the value of them - however from a product placment standpoint I think Kubota is making the right choice.

 

[Glowplug]

For those that have never operated a Position control system the quater inching valve works for them.

For those who have never driven a car a horse and buggy works for them too! So I guess ignorance is bliss so to speak. Just ask the BX-Boys who use quarter-inching control.

(Note: No offense intended to BX owners.)

 

[DAP]

For those who have never driven a car a horse and buggy works for them too! So I guess ignorance is bliss so to speak. Just ask the BX-Boys who use quarter-inching control.

(Note: No offense intended to BX owners.)

Easy there cowboy. My B7800 would handle your 16 acres just fine.

I can assure you my Q-inch valve purchase was not the result of ignorance, bliss or any combination thereof.

Still no tractor?

 

[Glowplug]

Easy there cowboy. My B7800 would handle your 16 acres just fine.

I can assure you my Q-inch valve purchase was not the result of ignorance, bliss or any combination thereof.

Still no tractor?

Hahahaha. LOL. I was expecting a comment at some point.
No, still no tractor. But it's at the dealer being tweaked and prepared for its new home. I'll bet my M7040 can take your B7800.

 

[DAP]

Hahahaha. LOL. I was expecting a comment at some point.
No, still no tractor. But it's at the dealer being tweaked and prepared for its new home. I'll bet my M7040 can take your B7800.

I'll take that bet. Say for a Spotted Draft gelding? You're on.

The bet is: My machine vs. Your machine: in ANY barn. Operative word, "in". Of course, since neither a horse or a tractor is actually IN your possession yet, this will be like stealing candy from an infant.

That M series may yet still be too small for you. Your britches do in fact fit the seat, no?

 

[Volfandt]

For those who have never driven a car a horse and buggy works for them too! So I guess ignorance is bliss so to speak. Just ask the BX-Boys who use quarter-inching control.
(Note: No offense intended to BX owners.

None taken, especially not from one who does not own a tractor......

re. position control vs qtr inching, if the debate is about PC being EASIER to use than QI then I'm in full agreement.

But QI IS a viable 3PH control as I've done way too much boxblade and garden plowing/disc'ing work with it to agree that it's not useful or is somehow inadequite. My old 48 TE20 didn't even have QI, it was basically just up/down....
Perhaps myself and others that learned to work a tractor w/QI and less, are just too exceptional in our tractor expertise to be able to work without PC