Balcony Solar is coming

[MossRoad]

Colorado is considering allowing it.

https://leg.colorado.gov/bill_files/113956/download

 

[Snobdds]

https://le.utah.gov/Session/2025/bills/introduced/HB0340.pdf

I still don't see any solar that is approved to be grid tied through a plug in the wall..

Can you point out what number in the .pdf you are basing your argument on?

 

[MossRoad]

Virginia passes it for 2027

https://lis.virginia.gov/bill-details/20261/SB250

 

[MossRoad]

I still don't see any solar that is approved to be grid tied through a plug in the wall..

Can you point out what number in the .pdf you are basing your argument on?

No. You can read it for yourself.

 

[MossRoad]

The Complete List of States Considering Plug-In Solar

The race to be the second legal state is heating up

exactsolar.substack.com

 

[Snobdds]

No. You can read it for yourself.

I did. I even ran it through AI...Nothing about plug in solar devices and the code being ok with bootleged devices that go from solar to the grid via a plug. There is language about solar generators.

Maybe you attached the wrong article?

Key Points of the Document (HB0340 - Solar Power Amendments)​

General Description:​

This bill modifies Utah's legislation on residential solar energy by introducing provisions for portable solar generation devices.

Key Provisions:​

1. Definitions and Scope:
   • Introduces the term "portable solar generation device," defined as a moveable photovoltaic device with a maximum power output of 1,200 watts, designed to connect to a building's electrical system via a standard 120-volt outlet.
   • Excludes portable solar devices from the definition of "customer generation system."
2. Exemptions for Portable Solar Devices:
   • Exempt from interconnection requirements and agreements typically required under Sections 54-15-103 and 54-15-106.
   • Not subject to net metering program requirements.
3. Safety Requirements:
   • Portable solar devices must include a feature to prevent energizing a building's electrical system during a power outage.
4. Liability Protections for Electrical Corporations:
   • Electrical corporations are not liable for damages or injuries caused by portable solar devices.
   • Customers using portable solar devices are not required to:
     • Obtain approval from electrical corporations before installation or use.
     • Pay fees or charges related to the system.
     • Install additional controls or equipment beyond what is integrated into the system.

Affected Utah Code Sections:​

• Amends Section 54-15-102.
• Enacts Section 54-15-601.

Effective Date:​

• The bill takes effect on May 7, 2025.

Financial Implications:​

• No money is appropriated in this bill.

This legislation aims to simplify the use of portable solar devices while ensuring safety and reducing regulatory burdens for consumers and electrical corporations.

 

[Phil Timmons]

I still don't see any solar that is approved to be grid tied through a plug in the wall..

Can you point out what number in the .pdf you are basing your argument on?

The Grid-Tie portion is line 88 and 89

=================
88 (b) has been designed, tested, and certified to UL1741 and installed and operated in
89 accordance with the latest revision of IEEE1547, as amended.
=================

However, that does not cover issues with:

1) overloading a house circuit (typically 15 or 20 amps) with both power from the Circuit Breaker Panel AND the backfeed amps.

And

2) Trying to backfeed through typical GFCI (Ground Fault) plug on a "balcony."

Summary -- this is all still rather: Half-assed and Half-baked.

Not bad, just not fully engineer-ed . . . yet.

 

[Snobdds]

The Grid-Tie portion is line 88 and 89

=================
88 (b) has been designed, tested, and certified to UL1741 and installed and operated in
89 accordance with the latest revision of IEEE1547, as amended.
=================

However, that does not cover issues with:

1) overloading a house circuit (typically 15 or 20 amps) with both power from the Circuit Breaker Panel AND the backfeed amps.

And

2) Trying to backfeed through typical GFCI (Ground Fault) plug on a "balcony."

Summary -- this is all still rather: Half-assed and Half-baked.

Not bad, just not fully engineer-ed . . . yet.

That just means the inverter has to be subject to UL1741?

 

[Phil Timmons]

That just means the inverter has to be subject to UL1741?

Yes, that is the testing standard for Grid-Tie certification. On traditional Grid-Tie, the Utility also specs and checks for that listing as part of the interconnection agreement.

When this started (Europe and small watts) they were not even doing that, iirc.

 

[orezok]

That looks like a bad idea from every angle imaginable.

People need to stop being so damn cheap, cheap to the point they will burn down their own place or kill a lineman.

If you are going through the time, effort and money of doing solar, do it right. The extra steps are not that much harder and it's not a home brew, backwoods hack job.

…and some people have TOO MUCH MONEY! Hmmm…

 

[orezok]

I did. I even ran it through AI...Nothing about plug in solar devices and the code being ok with bootleged devices that go from solar to the grid via a plug. There is language about solar generators.

Maybe you attached the wrong article?

Key Points of the Document (HB0340 - Solar Power Amendments)​

General Description:​

This bill modifies Utah's legislation on residential solar energy by introducing provisions for portable solar generation devices.

Key Provisions:​

1. Definitions and Scope:
   • Introduces the term "portable solar generation device," defined as a moveable photovoltaic device with a maximum power output of 1,200 watts, designed to connect to a building's electrical system via a standard 120-volt outlet.
   • Excludes portable solar devices from the definition of "customer generation system."
2. Exemptions for Portable Solar Devices:
   • Exempt from interconnection requirements and agreements typically required under Sections 54-15-103 and 54-15-106.
   • Not subject to net metering program requirements.
3. Safety Requirements:
   • Portable solar devices must include a feature to prevent energizing a building's electrical system during a power outage.
4. Liability Protections for Electrical Corporations:
   • Electrical corporations are not liable for damages or injuries caused by portable solar devices.
   • Customers using portable solar devices are not required to:
     • Obtain approval from electrical corporations before installation or use.
     • Pay fees or charges related to the system.
     • Install additional controls or equipment beyond what is integrated into the system.

Affected Utah Code Sections:​

• Amends Section 54-15-102.
• Enacts Section 54-15-601.

Effective Date:​

• The bill takes effect on May 7, 2025.

Financial Implications:​

• No money is appropriated in this bill.

This legislation aims to simplify the use of portable solar devices while ensuring safety and reducing regulatory burdens for consumers and electrical corporations.

Seems like your AI hallucinates a LOT!

 

[Snobdds]

…and some people have TOO MUCH MONEY! Hmmm…

What is too much?

 

[NorTracNY]

I believe I understand the overload on a house circuit concern, but not the back feed. My solar panels have circuitry at the inverter which prevents back feed. It sounds like these balcony devices have just moved that to the micro inverter. I will agree that it doesn't sound like the best way to install a solar panel system, but I can see this being useful for very low power needs.

 

[orezok]

What is too much?

I guess if you don’t know, you don’t know. Check with your AI.

 

[lman]

Hey! I resemble that! I'm known as the cheapest man anyone has ever known!

I did read a bit about those panels and they are low power and not able to run a hair dryer.
(But I'm bald anyway)
They say the cost return takes about 10 years.
If someone made a really inexpensive EV you could charge with it I'd be interested. Maybe mount one on the roof.

If you're that cheap, you wouldn't buy solar panels.

 

[hayden]

It's code to plug panels right into the grid via a plug from an inverter?

Find that accepted code...

Yes, it is. There is a UL standard for anti-islanding that is required in every jurisdiction i have ever experienced. If verifies that the device will disconnect from the grid if the grid power goes away. If an inverter isn’t listed for that UL spec then it’s illegal to connect it to the grid. Don’t buy it. Sorry, I don’t recall the UL number off hand.

Being grid interactive (pushing power back into the grid) requires a whole other level of certification, and pretty much everywhere you need permission from whoever manages the grid to install such a system. It also involves buy and sell rates, etc.

I don’t know which of the above this balcony device claims to be.

 

[shooterdon]

The older i get the less likely i will have a solar anything. The payback timeline has always been too close to my time left.

My investments earn 10%. It takes a lot of "free" power to exceed that.

 

[sd455dan]

And I know it's a touchy subject, but can anyone find ONE instance of a lineman being killed by a backfed generator?

I found ONE years ago. I found ONE today, but it was a 480V generator.

No but this local generator backfeed event fits the scenario exactly and many would have died from the hit he took.

Home owner lost grid power and hooked up his genny at the meter base and he left the breaker disconnect on. Linesman Josh a young family man probably tested it but if the generator started up after that...

picture of the hook up. They measured it at the pole transformer -stepped it up to 7620 Volts.



1.8K views · 305 reactions | On April 19th 2021 Josh, a Lineman for Northern Lights, was severely shocked by a Member’s improperly installed generator backfeeding onto our lines. Keep your family, your neighbors, and the lineman of Northern Lights safe by preventing backfeed. Generators should never be plugged into a home’s wiring or directly into the circuit breaker panel. Instead, a transfer switch should be installed, so any wiring or circuits can't be connected to the power grid and generator at the same time, eliminating any chance of backfeed. Make sure a qualified, licensed electrician installs the transfer switch for you. Thank you from all of us at Northern Lights. | Northern Lights Electric Cooperative

 

[hayden]

No lineman deaths due to backfeed doesn't mean there is no hazard from backfeed. It means the backfeed protections that are required on generators and inverters are working...

 

[rontaki]

Beforey solar panel install, the very first thing I would do before back feeding from my genny was to first pull the cartridge fuses from the meter panel. Visual proof of disconnect from the grid.
Glad those days are over!