Balcony Solar is coming

[Snobdds]

Rabbit season.

Do they have a plug too?

 

[MossRoad]

Maybe because people know how to prevent from doing it. An electrician can lose their licence if they hook it up wrong. Logical explanations are usually the best.

That may change with an easy way hillbilly it.

Again, it's not an easy way hillbilly solution. It's accepted code in europe and in Utah it's accepted with UL listed devices.

 

[Snobdds]

Easy for the rich guy to say. I like to call it being frugal and to do frugal well you have to be smart. I do agree being dumb AND cheap is a bad combo.

Darwin works in magical ways.

 

[Snobdds]

Again, it's not an easy way hillbilly solution. It's accepted code in europe and in Utah it's accepted with UL listed devices.

It's code to plug panels right into the grid via a plug from an inverter?

Find that accepted code...

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

You have a lot of faith in the electrical skills of a cheap person.

Hey! I resemble that! I'm known as the cheapest man anyone has ever known!

I did read a bit about those panels and they are low power and not able to run a hair dryer.
(But I'm bald anyway)
They say the cost return takes about 10 years.
If someone made a really inexpensive EV you could charge with it I'd be interested. Maybe mount one on the roof.

 

[caver]

Most back-feeds would kill the generator. Suddenly you become the power plant. Where it is a problem is say your place is the end of the feed line. Now say the break is nearby. The load now would be you and say a neighbor which the generator could possibly run. That's where a careless lineman could get into trouble. By careless meaning he didn't ground the line out which if he did he would see there is high voltage on it. Often they are working in garbage conditions and I can see where it would be real easy to make a mistake.

 

[Snobdds]

Hey! I resemble that! I'm known as the cheapest man anyone has ever known!

I did read a bit about those panels and they are low power and not able to run a hair dryer.
(But I'm bald anyway)
They say the cost return takes about 10 years.
If someone made a really inexpensive EV you could charge with it I'd be interested. Maybe mount one on the roof.

How loud is your squeak when you walk, the louder the squeak the cheaper the person. I know a few that I can hear through the internet.

So I guess if they are so low power, what is the point of them again?

 

[Snobdds]

The google web searches coming out of Indiana is making my internet slow, moss.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Realize that little balcony solar panel we're talking maybe 800 watts while a car battery is 10 times that. Has anyone here ever had a wet wash mitt on and had it touch the positive while other wet hand is grounded?
We're not talking about a 10+kW generator here. Any lineman is going to check for power before reconnecting anything.

 

[WM75Guy]

And I know it's a touchy subject, but can anyone find ONE instance of a lineman being killed by a backfed generator?

I found ONE years ago. I found ONE today, but it was a 480V generator.

Not killed but I have treated a lineman in the ED that was shocked by a generator back feed. Line was dead when they first started working on it. Somebody fired up a generator without back feed protection about an hour into the repair.

 

[Snobdds]

Found where the references are being sourced...AI, which is scrubbing from Reddit.




Key Aspects of Balcony Solar Systems:

• Installation & Components: Systems usually consist of one or two panels connected to a microinverter that converts DC power to AC for immediate home use.
• Easy Setup:
  No complex installation is required; they can be fastened to balconies and plugged into a standard wall socket.
• • Effectiveness: While they cannot power a whole home, they can cover a portion of base-load electricity consumption, such as refrigerators or electronic devices.
  • Safety & Regulation: In the U.S., regulation is evolving. Utah was the first state to allow them, and Virginia is the second. Others are introducing similar legislation. Using UL-certified microinverters with anti-islanding features is crucial for safety.
  • Legality: Outside of specific, progressive states, installing these may conflict with local utility regulations. However, in Europe, they are popular and widely approved.
  • ROI: These systems can offer a 3-5 year return on investment

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

How loud is your squeak when you walk, the louder the squeak the cheaper the person. I know a few that I can hear through the internet.

So I guess if they are so low power, what is the point of them again?

Personally I can't see myself buying one...but kudos to those improvements in solar panels.
I bought a 9kW gasoline generator many years ago ($750) when we had power out a few days, we're on a well. I run it occasionally, not connected.
I think people buy them to save a little on their power bill. IMHO...not worth it.

 

[Snobdds]

Found where the references are being sourced...AI, which is scrubbing from Reddit.




Key Aspects of Balcony Solar Systems:

• Installation & Components: Systems usually consist of one or two panels connected to a microinverter that converts DC power to AC for immediate home use.
• Easy Setup:
  No complex installation is required; they can be fastened to balconies and plugged into a standard wall socket.
• • Effectiveness: While they cannot power a whole home, they can cover a portion of base-load electricity consumption, such as refrigerators or electronic devices.
  • Safety & Regulation: In the U.S., regulation is evolving. Utah was the first state to allow them, and Virginia is the second. Others are introducing similar legislation. Using UL-certified microinverters with anti-islanding features is crucial for safety.
  • Legality: Outside of specific, progressive states, installing these may conflict with local utility regulations. However, in Europe, they are popular and widely approved.
  • ROI: These systems can offer a 3-5 year return on investment

So I searched about what anti-islanding is, which the above excerpt says is a crucial safety feature.

From AI

Anti-islanding is a mandatory safety feature in grid-tied solar inverters that immediately detects power outages and disconnects the system from the grid. This prevents solar systems from feeding power into de-energized lines, protecting utility workers from shock and preventing damage to local infrastructure.

Stop the Web searches in Indiana...we have our answer and it only took two pages to go full circle. Turns out, there does need to have a back feed prevention device.

 

[scootr]

Typically FREE solar power is a myth. The equipments effectiveness diminishes as it ages so you end up paying for the some expensive equipment until it is no longer effective and needs to be replaced with more expensive equipment...in my opinion

 

[rontaki]

Besides the "free" electricity, battery backup enables the solar panel system to keep on working when the grid is down - priceless for me in PGE (Part-time Gas & Electricity) territory in Norcal territory, especially being on a Squirrel Fart feed. (If a squirrel farts anywhere near a line, safety features cut power.) I'd have to grow more hands to count my grid outages on my fingers.

 

[Phil Timmons]

Typically FREE solar power is a myth. The equipments effectiveness diminishes as it ages so you end up paying for the some expensive equipment until it is no longer effective and needs to be replaced with more expensive equipment...in my opinion

sorta. Aint nothing "Free," but at this point (2026) New Solar PV is the Cheapest Thing there has EVER been in terms of Electricity Generation.

As far as "Ageing." Not such a big deal as once "hyped." Well as "FUDded" I suppose. Things have been around long enough to have been researched and studied and improved.

Thermal expansion and contraction of the Silicon substrate crystal(s) can cause "micro-cracks" that increase internal resistance. This was at worst around 1% per year -- last decade -- but now has been reduced around 1/2% per year or less. In many cases near zero.

Bottom line, regarding Service Life -- IF you or most anyone here put in Silicon Solar PV, now -- in 2026 -- it would still be working long after we are all dead.

We have some Olde Silicon PV in the Lab Window, at school -- now nearly 40 years old -- still working fine, and running the pumps and motors for the Robotic Greenhouse equipment in the window.

 

[Phil Timmons]

Realize that little balcony solar panel we're talking maybe 800 watts while a car battery is 10 times that. Has anyone here ever had a wet wash mitt on and had it touch the positive while other wet hand is grounded?
We're not talking about a 10+kW generator here. Any lineman is going to check for power before reconnecting anything.

The Risk is WAY beyond that. Transformers (the green or gray box on the ground, or cylinder on the pole) "transform" (change voltage levels) BOTH ways.

While general use of Transformers allow Distribution Voltage (typically 2400 to 34.5 KV) to "step down" to 120/240/480V for local site use -- they also "step up" in Reverse. So a connected Generator, Solar PV, Battery Inverter, etc. can create full Distribution Voltage on the Lineman side of things.

While this is dangerous to Linemen, who are taught this caution, (but are still at-risk) it can also "re-energize" local down(ed) lines around accidents and weather-damaged sites.

We -- Electrical, Generation, Engineering folks -- take the UL 1741 and IEEE 1547 standards and regulations rather seriously. Goal is to keep the lights on. And not hurt or kill anyone today.

 

[MossRoad]

Not killed but I have treated a lineman in the ED that was shocked by a generator back feed. Line was dead when they first started working on it. Somebody fired up a generator without back feed protection about an hour into the repair.

Thank you!

 

[MossRoad]

It's code to plug panels right into the grid via a plug from an inverter?

Find that accepted code...

https://le.utah.gov/Session/2025/bills/introduced/HB0340.pdf

 

[MossRoad]

Besides the "free" electricity, battery backup enables the solar panel system to keep on working when the grid is down - priceless for me in PGE (Part-time Gas & Electricity) territory in Norcal territory, especially being on a Squirrel Fart feed. (If a squirrel farts anywhere near a line, safety features cut power.) I'd have to grow more hands to count my grid outages on my fingers.

Won't work with the balcony solar setups because it takes 110V from the grid to activate the inverter. Grid goes down, no balcony solar.