Who rides motorcycles?

[scootr]

I lived in Medellin, Colombia for 2 years. I met a guy down there that rode his WR250R all the way from MN to the tip of South America and then back to Colombia the long way through Brazil, Suriname, Venezuela, etc. Needless to say I was impressed, and for a long time wanted one.

Yamaha WR250R is a legendary bike. I never owned one. And the price for a good one is high now.

 

[caver]

After the XT350 I had a DR650. Solid bike but seemed to be getting heavier and heavier when I would lay it over. The main reason I sold it though was fuel injection on newer bikes. That DR got to be real temperamental if it sat a few weeks with gas in the carb.

 

[JasperFrank]

It wasn't so much before, to have a kickstart only motorcycle. Yet yesterday, I am thinking, do I do the car or am I going to do the kick start motorcycle? At 67 maybe I've lost something. It was for a short trip. Meaning some gear, tie downs and the helmet and stuff. And seriously, if the bike was an electric start, with fuel injection and electronic controls, this would have made a difference in that decision. My 80 SR 500 has none of those things.
I didn't got to the local store on the motorcycle.

 

[Bocephous]

My last bike was a DR650. Loved it, had lots of low end grunt! But pretty old school the bike hasn't been changed since it was released in 1996. These CFMotos are $6000 brand new, seems like a great deal. Lots of good reivew and torture tests on them on YouTube.

A DR was on my short list before I decided on my current XR, which is unchanged since 1993. Old school new stuff appeals to me greatly; less to go wrong. As an example of this, I recently bought a 2000 Honda Rancher 350ES. Old design air/oil cooled motor, easy to adjust valves. Its Achilles heel is the electronic shifting. Guess what failed 3 days ago?

 

[Bocephous]

After the XT350 I had a DR650. Solid bike but seemed to be getting heavier and heavier when I would lay it over. The main reason I sold it though was fuel injection on newer bikes. That DR got to be real temperamental if it sat a few weeks with gas in the carb.

Anything carbureted I own gets non-eth, and the fuel is shut off prior to shutdown. If it is going to sit for a bit the carb also gets run dry.

 

[HawkinsHollow]

Anything carbureted I own gets non-eth, and the fuel is shut off prior to shutdown. If it is going to sit for a bit the carb also gets run dry.

All very good practices IMO.

 

[scootr]

Fuel injection has been a big improvement, eliminating problems with sitting and elevation changes. But it comes with it's own drawbacks. Here we can only run 50 state compliant bikes, quads, etc. Which means they are super leaned out and choked up. Lots of people spend big bucks uncorking these motors allowing more fuel in and gasses out. Left stock they run hot and the low idle circuit feels very on/off which is difficult to manage in the slow technical riding. There is a big market in aftermarket ECU and exhausts. But they do sit indefinitely without fuel problems

 

[deserteagle71]

Fuel injection has been a big improvement, eliminating problems with sitting and elevation changes. But it comes with it's own drawbacks. Here we can only run 50 state compliant bikes, quads, etc. Which means they are super leaned out and choked up. Lots of people spend big bucks uncorking these motors allowing more fuel in and gasses out. Left stock they run hot and the low idle circuit feels very on/off which is difficult to manage in the slow technical riding. There is a big market in aftermarket ECU and exhausts. But they do sit indefinitely without fuel problems

When I heard that Yamaha was discontinuing the XT225 in 2007 and going to the XT250 (with some pretty significant changes) I decided to replace my high-mileage 1992 XT225 with a 2007, figuring it would be essentially the same bike but new.

I should have done more research. My 1992 XT came with both electric start and kick starter. The 2007 came only with electric start but the kick starter was available as an add-on kit - which I also bought and had installed because the remote areas I ride the reliability of a kick starter was paramount - start the bike even if the battery were dead. The most egregious part of the 2007 was the carburetion. The 1992 had a very simple carburetor that was very smooth in how it operated - rolling on the throttle brought a very smooth, easy response. The 2007 had a diaphragm carburetor that was hard to control - rolling on the throttle would result in some hesitation, then a strong surge of power. Not something you want on rough single track. Worst of all was the jetting - very lean, just like the fuel injection you are talking about. Luckily, there were lots of posts on XT225 forums about how to change the jetting, both idle and main, so the bike would run better and not so lean, so that's what I did.

By the time I had the 2007 running to my satisfaction I was of the opinion I should have just rebuilt the 1992!

 

[Milo]

I think you would have been happier with a 2008+ with FI. The carbureted XT225 and XT250's were notoriously hard starting especially if they sat for a few days. Also ran poorly up at altitude or if jetted for high altitude ran way lean at low elevations.

 

[deserteagle71]

I think you would have been happier with a 2008+ with FI. The carbureted XT225 and XT250's were notoriously hard starting especially if they sat for a few days. Also ran poorly up at altitude or if jetted for high altitude ran way lean at low elevations.

???

Not been my experience. True, I've only owned two - the 1992 and the 2007. I don't ride during the winter months but either XT would fire up after 4 or 5 good kicks after having been parked for 4 months. The trick was to always run the engine until it died from lack of fuel (empty the carburetor) before shutting it down for the season. And I never had problems at altitude either and most of my riding is done at elevations between 4000 and 11,000 feet.

 

[Milo]

The ones I, and my friends, had were all hard starting after sitting a week or so, so the carbs were not drained for that. They started but had to crank and crank, wait, crank and crank again then they would fire up. After that they started easily.

All my carb'd bikes ran rich with noticeable loss of power above 7,000'. My current FI XT250 looses a bit of power but not near as much.

 

[scootr]

I had the 2019 XT250. It started instantly no matter how long it sat. But it did have a little of that on/off throttle action...mostly in 1st, 2nd was better and that's where I tried to do most of my technical riding. Anyway guy I sold it to is very happy with it And I'm 2 bikes down the road
I think 95% of the bikes are FI now, in the Commie state of CA I bet you can't buy a carbureted bike ...IDK but seems to be going that way.
I just bought a new ECU for the Husky so I can mitigate some of the dreadful OEM tuning.

 

[deserteagle71]

The ones I, and my friends, had were all hard starting after sitting a week or so, so the carbs were not drained for that. They started but had to crank and crank, wait, crank and crank again then they would fire up. After that they started easily.

All my carb'd bikes ran rich with noticeable loss of power above 7,000'. My current FI XT250 looses a bit of power but not near as much.

Just curious - will the fuel injected XT250 run if the battery is totally dead? The XT225 would, no problem.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Just curious - will the fuel injected XT250 run if the battery is totally dead? The XT225 would, no problem.

no it wont... well if you boost it it will start, then it will run as long as you are half throttle or more, as soon as you shift or let go of the throttle it will stall.... and you wont be able to start it again without a boost.

 

[ponytug]

no it wont... well if you boost it it will start, then it will run as long as you are half throttle or more, as soon as you shift or let go of the throttle it will stall.... and you wont be able to start it again without a boost.

That would seem like not the sort of behavior that I would want out of a back trails bike that I would want. Thanks for that.

All the best, Peter

 

[BackRoad]

Would it push start and run with dead battery?

 

[Rockbadchild]

Would it push start and run with dead battery?

That would seem like not the sort of behavior that I would want out of a back trails bike that I would want. Thanks for that.

All the best, Peter

So on dead battery but healthy it will start on a push start and you will be fine after, it will run idle and do everything you want … with a dead battery and shorted out or no battery at all it won’t run or start with a push start.

 

[Milo]

That would seem like not the sort of behavior that I would want out of a back trails bike that I would want.

Are there any modern motorcycles, Jeeps, etc that will start with a completely dead battery?
TBH I'd be more concerned about running out of gas, punctured tube flat, etc than a battery suddenly shorting out.

If your battery is too low to turn the engine, bump start the thing or carry one of the tiny little lithium booster batteries along.

 

[deserteagle71]

Are there any modern motorcycles, Jeeps, etc that will start with a completely dead battery?

I think they all will, if jump started. Whether they will keep running for any length of time after the boost from the jump starter is removed is another question. Which is why I was asking about fuel injection which requires electricity to run. A lot of the older dirt bikes didn't even have a battery - a good kick to the kick starter would provide enough juice from the stator to fire the engine and it would run fine after that. That's kind of how the pre-fuel injected Yamaha XTs worked; batteries were added to make them street legal to run lights, etc.

TBH I'd be more concerned about running out of gas, punctured tube flat, etc than a battery suddenly shorting out.

Only had a battery short out once in the nearly 60 years I've been riding and that was on a Yamaha Kodiak that I still own and ride. I was down in an extremely remote area where Arizona and Nevada meet, just about on the shore of Lake Mead near the historic Tassi Ranch now owned by the National Park Service. Been riding all day and not seen another person or vehicle when suddenly the instrument panel on the Kodiak began acting erratically - blinking on and off. But the Kodiak ran just fine so I kept on going. Then I stopped to take some photos, turning off the engine. When I got back on to ride again there was NOTHING - not a sound, nothing on the instrument panel at all. If I tapped on the battery the instrument panel would blink momentarily. Luckily, the Kodiak - being an older carbureted model - also had a pull starter in addition to electric start. That may have saved my life that day. I'd practiced starting the engine with the pull starter - it wasn't easy turning over that big engine pulling on a cord - so I knew the drill. Get it up on the compression stroke, squat down and then stand up quickly with back and arms straight. My arms never did have enough strength to just pull start that engine like I would a lawn mower or chain saw. The Kodiak fired instantly and I was able to ride back to camp.

Only thing I didn't care about with the Kodiak was the color - dark green. In the summer desert sun the dark green body panels would get hot enough to burn my hand. A couple years ago I was at a Yamaha dealer and saw a new Kodiak, and it was a light cream color. I would have bought that - but I found out that some years ago Yamaha did away with the pull starter on the Kodiaks. Plus they also did away with the front locker. Both a hard pass for me. I'm still riding the 20 year old Kodiak - over 9200 trouble free miles on it now.

Old Faithful. If you look close you can see the handle for the pull cord on the side of the engine.

 

[Bocephous]

I had the 2019 XT250. It started instantly no matter how long it sat. But it did have a little of that on/off throttle action...mostly in 1st, 2nd was better and that's where I tried to do most of my technical riding. Anyway guy I sold it to is very happy with it And I'm 2 bikes down the road
I think 95% of the bikes are FI now, in the Commie state of CA I bet you can't buy a carbureted bike ...IDK but seems to be going that way.
I just bought a new ECU for the Husky so I can mitigate some of the dreadful OEM tuning.

This is one thing that irritates me...why can't the manufacturers just jet/program a motorcycle to run the way it should for peak performance and longevity from the factory? Playing those little games like cutting fuel completely when you close the throttle sacrifices smoothness. Jetting/programming it purposefully lean is detrimental to the health of the engine.

I could transition this rant to the automotive side but will stop now.

Our "overlords" do not have any allies in this house.