equipment emissions (EPA) ended

[DarkBlack]

I think some are getting ahead of the regulations drop. As a poster already mentioned, it’s for the very questionably “polluting”…life sustaining CO2 emissions. Greenhouse gases that makes the earth green.
It’s not about nasty NOx and particulates, that DEF fluid and other strategies try to mitigate on diesel engines.
Sorry for the bad news.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Not all people drive Hellcats!

They don't know what they're missing.

The smart move would be to design the equipment so the emissions junk is a modular add-on. When mandated, sell with it on, and the computer requires it to be there if that is part of the requirement. Otherwise sell without.

It's already a fairly simple package in many cases. I bought a delete kit for my '17 Ram, on my dealer's recommendation no less, as it ran like crap when I got it.

Well, at 4,000 miles it perked up, and kept running better and better, so the exhaust system, some simple block-off plates and such, plus the MM3 "control unit" are still in their respective boxes.

If the aftermarket could sell the complete setup, including the programming, for $1,600 and make money on it, it shouldn't be much harder for a manufacturer to offer the option than it is to have different engines and colors available.

Sure, it would never be CARB approved, but so what?

 

[BrightBerry]

"All federal greenhouse gas emission standards for vehicles and engines subsequent to the 2009 declaration will be rescinded, a source familiar with the situation said."

Another middle-of-the-night Trump executive fantasy, which will be rescinded when Congress learns to grow a set. If the industry can simply remove a part and not affect performance some may do that on machines sold domestically in states which don't have their own higher standards. When the rule is reinstated they can bold those parts back on. If you (or your family members or workers) want to work all day sitting atop a diesel engine with no emissions controls, have at it. Me, I like healthy lungs.

 

[Chanceywd]

Oh, geez! That is one option that would never sell, on certain vehicles. I can't imagine many Hellcat buyers opting for the "clean air package".

I'm all for anything that can be done to reduce emissions, without impacting driver experience. Cylinder de-activation is a good one, but should've been set up so you can enable/disable it permanently, not just on each re-start.

And I would like to see actual hard data that this stupid and universally-hated auto-stop/start feature acually does anything to help the environment. That includes the emissions wasted on making and installing replacement starters, due to all of the extra wear and tear on stopping and starting your engine at every stoplight. It's hard to believe that feature is actually a net-positive, in any way.

Oh, geez! That is one option that would never sell, on certain vehicles. I can't imagine many Hellcat buyers opting for the "clean air package".

I'm all for anything that can be done to reduce emissions, without impacting driver experience. Cylinder de-activation is a good one, but should've been set up so you can enable/disable it permanently, not just on each re-start.

And I would like to see actual hard data that this stupid and universally-hated auto-stop/start feature acually does anything to help the environment. That includes the emissions wasted on making and installing replacement starters, due to all of the extra wear and tear on stopping and starting your engine at every stoplight. It's hard to believe that feature is actually a net-positive, in any way.

I would add the whole ethanol added to gas to see that net-positive.
All the diesel burned in the raising and harvesting the crop, the power to make the ethanol,
All the storage, pipe lines etc, and then the diesel in trucks to transport to gas stations. All the sensors in a car involved and costs of excessive alcohol settling out and attracting water, so now vehicle needs service. The ruining of small engines and cars built prior to all this BS and on and on.

Bill

 

[Chanceywd]

They don't know what they're missing.

It's already a fairly simple package in many cases. I bought a delete kit for my '17 Ram, on my dealer's recommendation no less, as it ran like crap when I got it.

Well, at 4,000 miles it perked up, and kept running better and better, so the exhaust system, some simple block-off plates and such, plus the MM3 "control unit" are still in their respective boxes.

If the aftermarket could sell the complete setup, including the programming, for $1,600 and make money on it, it shouldn't be much harder for a manufacturer to offer the option than it is to have different engines and colors available.

Sure, it would never be CARB approved, but so what?

I am sick of CARB being the SWMBO in this country. NY seems to just add that to us all the time. If you have a federal emission vehicle that needs a converter you have to add a CARB compliant one. You can't buy the federal one, not even out of state. It has become like the gun laws here.

 

[Johnb0311]

... if it holds. I suspect these mandates to simply reverse with each new administration.

Remember when a President was only responsible for enforcing law passed by Congress? Yeah... me neither.

I'd be thrilled to get rid of the stupid auto-stop/start feature and cylinder de-activation, I have to turn off each on my various cars, every time I start them. But by the time I need to buy another new car, they'll probably be law again.

"Range" disablers do the trick. Run V8 full time. stops that crappy auto start stop feature. Used one on my Silverado after lifter failure and now have one on my Siearra. For me , best thing I did. Smoother shifting. Not upshifting and downshifting all the time. I bought a v-8 truck cause I wanted a truck, not some govt. imposed four wheel vehicle saving a few gallons at my loss .

 

[nisaacs]

Another middle-of-the-night Trump executive fantasy, which will be rescinded when Congress learns to grow a set. If the industry can simply remove a part and not affect performance some may do that on machines sold domestically in states which don't have their own higher standards. When the rule is reinstated they can bold those parts back on. If you (or your family members or workers) want to work all day sitting atop a diesel engine with no emissions controls, have at it. Me, I like healthy lungs.

Do you have emissions on your NH 1220 or TTR4400?

 

[Joe Batt]

Recirculating exhaust gasses back into an engine?

It looks like we can have a similar O2 reduction in the cylinder (leading to less NoX out the exhaust) with variable valve timing. The problem again is reliability. See Koenigsegg's FreeValve technology Koenigsegg TFG - Wikipedia

 

[WinterDeere]

"Range" disablers do the trick. Run V8 full time. stops that crappy auto start stop feature. Used one on my Silverado after lifter failure and now have one on my Siearra. For me , best thing I did. Smoother shifting. Not upshifting and downshifting all the time. I bought a v-8 truck cause I wanted a truck, not some govt. imposed four wheel vehicle saving a few gallons at my loss .

No need. On my truck, simply hitting the downshift button on the steering wheel once after reaching 8th gear knocks it from "D" down to "D8". In "D8", it will not run cylinder de-activation.

It's a very minor annoyance to have to remember to hit that button, and honestly, I've stopped bothering... it's a truck, not a Ferrari.

On my SRT Charger, I have to go to Sport Mode, which is two button clicks... so twice as annoying as the truck's 1-button. And there are two ways to disable it on the Durango R/T, either via the Sport Mode button on the dash, or using the same trick I use in the pickup truck.

None of our other vehicles have cylinder de-activation, only the three newer v8's from Dodge.

 

[Runner]

If my car deactivated every other cylinder, I'd only be running on one.

 

[WinterDeere]

If my car deactivated every other cylinder, I'd only be running on one.

I remember driving cars in 1990's Germany, that had a total displacement nearing that of each cylinder in some of my American cars.

I remember one of my coworkers had a car with 800 or 900 cc displacement. I remember telling him, "my car has exactly the same displacement... per cylinder!".

 

[Tinhack]

How much you wanna bet the prices of equipment that the emissions crap is no longer required their prices will not drop.

Most likely not. Haven't you experienced the recent and common "shrink-flation". Just about every product I've purchased in the last year and half, including food, is going through the belt tightening process. In many cases, the price went UP as well as getting less. It's really double inflation. You must not do any of the shopping.

 

[51allis]

How much you wanna bet the prices of equipment that the emissions crap is no longer required their prices will not drop.

That's because, we as consumers, have been conditioned by these auto manufacturers marketing depts. that spending $70k for a truck should be normal. These over engineered pieces of crap on the road today are just ridiculous. I've seen some people brag about how they have paid $100k for a truck, a truck that depreciates to zero value eventually....HUH? I can build 2....I repeat 2 1200sqft houses for that price, turn key (with electric, well, septic BUT not the land), I have built 1200sqft for $50K. Its all in how you value your money. Maybe manufacturers will get the hint if people just stop buying, same thing happened when consumers told manufacturers they don't want EV's, manufacturers ignored what the market wanted and sided with the gov't by trying to remove ICE vehicles...now they are reversing it all, look at Farley at Ford, he wasted almost $19 Billion chasing EV's that he was in love with, but the market said no thanks, How he keeps his job is beyond me.

 

[CoyPatton]

... if it holds. I suspect these mandates to simply reverse with each new administration.

Remember when a President was only responsible for enforcing law passed by Congress? Yeah... me neither.

I'd be thrilled to get rid of the stupid auto-stop/start feature and cylinder de-activation, I have to turn off each on my various cars, every time I start them. But by the time I need to buy another new car, they'll probably be law again.

I hare that I agree this is only likely to stand until the political wave shifts left again.
Also while it may no longer be the law, how quickly will manufactures react, and at what cost? Consumers (yes the purchaser) can expect to cover those expensive changes in my opinion.

 

[DarkBlack]

As far as I can tell, this EPA change has nothing to do with cylinder deactivation. Implementation of Start-Stop gave manufacturers a defined credit for off-cycle time.
Cylinder deactivation, on the other hand, is simply a voluntary method manufacturers can employ if they want, to attempt to reduce fuel consumption and emissions, same as variable valve timing, variable injection timing, etc…. They weren’t getting an off cycle credit for it.

 

[boatmoter]

"All federal greenhouse gas emission standards for vehicles and engines subsequent to the 2009 declaration will be rescinded, a source familiar with the situation said."

the emissions makes no difference to me. Im 70 and I have no children to leave behind that will have to breathe the air or drink the water

 

[Runner]

As far as I can tell, this EPA change has nothing to do with cylinder deactivation. Implementation of Start-Stop gave manufacturers a defined credit for off-cycle time.
Cylinder deactivation, on the other hand, is simply a voluntary method manufacturers can employ if they want, to attempt to reduce fuel consumption and emissions, same as variable valve timing, variable injection timing, etc…. They weren’t getting an off cycle credit for it.

Agree. The manufacturers are the ones that saddled their customers with this abomination. Ford could have just as easily kept selling some small cars (which people do want) to help their CAFE averages, but chose to go this route so they could sell more $100,000 trucks.

 

[51allis]

Agree. The manufacturers are the ones that saddled their customers with this abomination. Ford could have just as easily kept selling some small cars (which people do want) to help their CAFE averages, but chose to go this route so they could sell more $100,000 trucks.

Just look at the Maverick, was supposed to be low $20's when it came out, great deal but NOW?? in my area can't get any new Ford for less than $30k. Don't get me wrong, I would love to buy a new small truck for the farm, give me a small work truck with no frills capable of towing at LEAST 3500#, just easy to fix, reliable and a manual trans for about $22k, but we will never get it.

 

[WinterDeere]

That's because, we as consumers, have been conditioned by these auto manufacturers marketing depts. that spending $70k for a truck should be normal.

I guess we could argue cause vs. effect, or causation vs. correlation, here. I've always seen it as the other way around, that other stupid consumers have convinced the auto makers that they're willing to take loans they can't really afford, to buy these highly-optioned status symbols. Manufacturers generally respond to market demand, it's very rare that they create or drive it.

Now I know this is where someone is going to bring up Henry Ford's most famous quote. But Henry Ford was that rare individual, the once in a generation type, who broke all the rules.

As far as I can tell, this EPA change has nothing to do with cylinder deactivation. Implementation of Start-Stop gave manufacturers a defined credit for off-cycle time.
Cylinder deactivation, on the other hand, is simply a voluntary method manufacturers can employ if they want, to attempt to reduce fuel consumption and emissions, same as variable valve timing, variable injection timing, etc…. They weren’t getting an off cycle credit for it.

Good point. It's interesting to note here that the government had to subsidize auto-stop/start, almost as if they're admitting from the get-go that it has little value in achieving emissions or consumption targets, whereas cylinder deactivation is able to achieve widespread deployment on its merit alone.

 

[moosetooth]

Remember when Honda met all emission requirements and did so without a Catalytic Converter with their CVCC?

In engineering it is often possible to make large gains for modest cost… the problem is the cost and durability often suffer chasing the last few percentage points.

California is still testing 1976 and newer vehicles… but it’s getting very hard to find a local shop that is licensed to do the older vehicle testing.

The Hospital standby generators are circa 1995 and the Air District plans to force retirement and is also focused on steam boilers of the same vintage.

I had 2 CVCC Accords and they were amazing. Also had a 1993 Civic VX that got an honest 60 mpg highway. This pinnacle of efficiency was not appreciated by the EPA and removed from the American market. About the same time that tax breaks were offered for gas guzzling luxury SUVs.