Good battery, crank but no start.

[grsthegreat]

I’ve never seen a modern diesel tractor without glow plugs?

 

[etpm]

Once again a no start condition turns out to be a bad ground. Really, when the no starter motor activation condition occurs the first thing to do should be to remove the negative cable from the frame, clean the frame and the cable lug to bright metal, re-attach the ground cable lug, and try starting. Especially if the problem occurs suddenly.
Eric

 

[Little Red Tractor]

I may have missed a piece of this but, if it is now turning over, and if it starts and runs with starter fluid or WD 40, but won't continue to run, it sounds like a fuel supply issue. Could be water, a plugged filter, a failed pump, a failed shut-off mechanism (unknown if that's a manual fuel shut-off or a solenoid).
Service manuals are apparently available: Long 350 Tractor - Service Manual

 

[RiversideFarm]

I’ve never seen a modern diesel tractor without glow plugs?

I have a 2001 New Holland and a 2007 JD both over 60 hp. No glow plugs on either, block heater on the JD and fuel heater on the NH.

 

[uncle888]

I have a similar tractor to yours, mine is a 1975 model. If you have a lever type start switch, the glow plug is activated by turning it clockwise. You can also start the engine, without the glow plug, by turning the switch anti clockwise.

 

[yoppeh7j]

In my 80 plus years I never have seen a diesel that would not start at 40 to 50 degrees unless the starter was turning too slow or the fuel injection was messed up or the air filter was plugged. From the sound in the second video I think you still have electral problems with the starter. Maybe not enough voltage at the starter from bad connections. Clean all them from the starter to the battery including the starter to the engine. You may have the starter starting to drag. Maybe a new starter if problem continue.

 

[Tx Jim]

I’ve never seen a modern diesel tractor without glow plugs?

There are many diesel engines built today that have no glow-plugs, JD 2.9L/179 cid, 4.5L/276 cid & 6.8L/414 cid are prime examples. These engine are used in many JD tractors currently being manufactured today.

 

[MelroseFred]

Was able to get the starter off and bench (ground) test it:

Bench test

Any thoughts on the state of the starter?

 

[Eagle1]

Does not look like it ever turns. The solenoid kicks the gear out into flywheel but nothing you did turned the starter motor. Not gonna start without some motion but you may not have applied enough power with that connection.
Plug the hot to the solenoid then use a smaller jumper to energize the solenoid to see if the contacts make a solid connection and actually turn the motor. If the motor does not turn time to see why (corrosion, bearing or ?) or replace.

 

[Tx Jim]

In video when positive battery jump cable was attached to large post that's connected to field coils on starter frame if appears that field coils, armature &/or brushes are faulty due to no rotation of armature.

When bench testing a starter one needs to attach ground cable to starter frame as shown in video then attach positive cable to large post on solenoid that larger tractor battery cable was attached to. Then using a screwdriver short across large post & smaller post on solenoid normally marked with an "S". In lieu of screwdriver one can use a "remote start switch" if available.

 

[Egon]

I’ve never seen a modern diesel tractor without glow plugs?

Only indirect injection diesels will have glow plugs.

 

[dodge man]

Only indirect injection diesels will have glow plugs.

I don’t think that’s true but might be?

 

[IH3444]

That's a nice-looking heavy-duty starter like the one for my IH3444. It stopped working, so I disassembled it. Cleaned it all up, refinished the brush contact surfaces (commutator) with sandpaper by chucking the armature shaft into a 1/2" drill chuck. Drill was clamped into a bench vice. Refinished the commutator surface bar by smoothing out the slightly rutted, worn copper surface with sandpaper placed over a flat file and spinning the drill motor slowly. Cleaned all bearing surfaces and regreased with Pennzoil Marine water repellant grease. Flipped over the solenoid contact points 180 degrees so new surfaces would make contact with fresh refinished surfaces. Installed new brushed that I matched up at the NAPA dealer in town. Had to do some slight modifications with a file to get them to fit back into their slots. Reassembled, and reinstalled in tractor. Works like new. Should be good for another 40 years.

 

[rv7charlie]

Was able to get the starter off and bench (ground) test it:

Bench test

Any thoughts on the state of the starter?

I thought you posted a video earlier with the engine actually turning over normally. What did I miss? (And, was the point of the 2nd video, 'how to burn up stuff with battery cables'?) ;-)

Also note that it's possible to activate the solenoid, which will move the Bendix forward, without powering the motor winding. Which is what it *looks* like you did. You don't appear to have power applied to the high current supply terminal, when you power the small coil terminal (which activates the solenoid and moves the Bendix). You then appear to touch the high current supply terminal, but don't activate the small coil terminal. And touching the frame of the starter with the hot jumper lead is dangerous; it could weld itself to the frame, and wreak all manner of havoc. At minimum, you could get one of those sparks in an eye.

 

[MelroseFred]

I thought you posted a video earlier with the engine actually turning over normally. What did I miss? (And, was the point of the 2nd video, 'how to burn up stuff with battery cables'?) ;-)

Also note that it's possible to activate the solenoid, which will move the Bendix forward, without powering the motor winding. Which is what it *looks* like you did. You don't appear to have power applied to the high current supply terminal, when you power the small coil terminal (which activates the solenoid and moves the Bendix). You then appear to touch the high current supply terminal, but don't activate the small coil terminal. And touching the frame of the starter with the hot jumper lead is dangerous; it could weld itself to the frame, and wreak all manner of havoc. At minimum, you could get one of those sparks in an eye.

It wasn’t working, then it was, then it wasn’t. Intermittent until it finally quit for good.

I’ve purchased a new starter and I’ve already installed it. I’m just trying to find time to try it.

 

[MelroseFred]

That's a nice-looking heavy-duty starter like the one for my IH3444. It stopped working, so I disassembled it. Cleaned it all up, refinished the brush contact surfaces (commutator) with sandpaper by chucking the armature shaft into a 1/2" drill chuck. Drill was clamped into a bench vice. Refinished the commutator surface bar by smoothing out the slightly rutted, worn copper surface with sandpaper placed over a flat file and spinning the drill motor slowly. Cleaned all bearing surfaces and regreased with Pennzoil Marine water repellant grease. Flipped over the solenoid contact points 180 degrees so new surfaces would make contact with fresh refinished surfaces. Installed new brushed that I matched up at the NAPA dealer in town. Had to do some slight modifications with a file to get them to fit back into their slots. Reassembled, and reinstalled in tractor. Works like new. Should be good for another 40 years.
View attachment 4692546

Good post, thank you. I’m keeping the starter with the hopes of rebuilding it one day. (Like a million other things I hope to do one day.)

Here’s a pic of the new starter beside the new one. It’s much smaller, lighter and I believe has a gear reduction:

View attachment IMG_4038.jpeg

 

[JimRB]

Only indirect injection diesels will have glow plugs.

I am not sure what indirect injectors are. My 2003 diesel car's engine has injectors that bolt into the head, not into the intake manifold. Same engine has 4 glow plugs bolted into the head. Injectors and glow plugs on the near side. Intake and exhaust manifolds on the far firewall side. Pretty sure injectors that squirt into the combustion chamber are not indirect. That said my 1984 gas VW with 4 fuel injectors sprayed into the intake manifold. Are those indirect injectors?

Some diesels can start just fine without heat. My 1987 JD 870 (Yanmar) doesn't seem to need the intake grid heater until it gets close to freezing.

 

[etpm]

I am not sure what indirect injectors are. My 2003 diesel car's engine has injectors that bolt into the head, not into the intake manifold. Same engine has 4 glow plugs bolted into the head. Injectors and glow plugs on the near side. Intake and exhaust manifolds on the far firewall side. Pretty sure injectors that squirt into the combustion chamber are not indirect. That said my 1984 gas VW with 4 fuel injectors sprayed into the intake manifold. Are those indirect injectors?

Some diesels can start just fine without heat. My 1987 JD 870 (Yanmar) doesn't seem to need the intake grid heater until it gets close to freezing.

I dunno for sure but I think indirect injectors in diesel engines inject the fuel into a small chamber that is separate from the main combustion chamber. I believe this is how my Yanmar YM2310 works. So the fuel is not injected into the intake manifold. It is instead subjected to the very high compression that happens in a diesel engine but is not injected into the main combustion chamber but is instead injected into the small chamber that is in communication with the main combustion chamber. See the link: Indirect Injection Vs. Direct Injection Engines | Big Bear Engine Company
Eric

 

[S854]

Here’s a pic of the new starter…It’s much smaller, lighter and I believe has a gear reduction…

I’m in the process of resurrecting my 1973 BMW motorcycle… the starter isn’t quite as big as either one you posted… however, the replacement starter for my bike is tiny compared to the original… more torque, less battery draw and lighter weight… isn’t technology wonderful…

 

[JimRB]

I dunno for sure but I think indirect injectors in diesel engines inject the fuel into a small chamber that is separate from the main combustion chamber. I believe this is how my Yanmar YM2310 works. So the fuel is not injected into the intake manifold. It is instead subjected to the very high compression that happens in a diesel engine but is not injected into the main combustion chamber but is instead injected into the small chamber that is in communication with the main combustion chamber. See the link: Indirect Injection Vs. Direct Injection Engines | Big Bear Engine Company
Eric

That is a good article. Now I know at least one of my 3 diesels is indirect injection. Not sure about my JD 870.