12 States to ban diesel vehicles

[rontaki]

I heard the Valero refinery was closing because of insane regulations, leaving only the Phillips 66 refinery. Gas is going to get very expensive in CA, as if it wasn’t already

We're going to ban electricity next.

 

[Muhammad]

Did CA or San Diego provide any financial benefit to your purchase of electric vehicles? A CA friend, 15 years ago, went the electric car route because CA incentivized the purchase of electric cars and the PV installed on his property. My memory was 50% of cost for PV was paid by state so it was no thought required as the financial breakeven was less than 5 years.

No, but I think the federal rebate passed through on one of the cars that we leased. Didn't get any state or local rebates on anything.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

I'd like to see stats on where that energy is being consumed because Meta is putting in a new data center in our area and their energy burn is going to be insane.

I'm guessing EVs are a drop in the bucket compared to modern data centers now that AI is taking off.

I dunno. Those diesel generators they have in some places (for a one vehicle charging station) look pretty meaningful. Might be 40-50 something KW.

Multiply that by thousands of EVs and the consumption would be noticeable.

 

[Gator6x4]

I'll bet the ban does not last long, once the out-of-touch lawmakers find empty shelves and other shortages.

Wrong. A Empty pocketbook is the only thing a politician understands.

 

[ultrarunner]

No, but I think the federal rebate passed through on one of the cars that we leased. Didn't get any state or local rebates on anything.

One of the local rebates was utility credit towards home charging station…

Another is free charging which is still offered where my niece works plus preferential EV parking.

The biggest perk for busy Bay Area Drivers is single occupant use of the carpool lanes and reduced bridge tolls…

 

[Muhammad]

One of the local rebates was utility credit towards home charging station…

Another is free charging which is still offered where my niece works plus preferential EV parking.

The biggest perk for busy Bay Area Drivers is single occupant use of the carpool lanes and reduced bridge tolls…

Yeah we didn't get anything for the electric panel upgrade we did. Would have been nice.

 

[Muhammad]

I don't buy

That's why I don't put much stock in the "we can't have EV's because our infrastructure can't support them" argument. It sells American ingenuity short. There wasn't a gas station on every corner when cars showed up. I don't believe in government mandates but the buying public wants EVs and I have faith in American enterprise and profit motivation to get the infrastructure in place. I'm especially hopeful that it will create a renewed interest in nuclear power since a lot of the hurdles, especially in waste, have been largely overcome. Of course, we might have to wait for my generation who watched China Syndrome to die off to lower the fear mongering a bit.

Yeah come back in 10, 20, or 30 years and we should be gradually much further along.

 

[Hay Dude]

That sounds good but what happens when a new different administration reinstates those strangling regulations.

You can “delete” a DEF/DPF truck using electronics. You effectively shut off the regen cycle and the DEF fluid injections by using a programmer to reprogram the trucks computer. You can remove the DPF and replace with a piece of exhaust pipe relatively easily.
If the regs were re-introduced, the DEF/DPF could be turned back on and the DPF could be re-installed.

 

[Hay Dude]

Electric vehicles don't work everywhere. Biden was going to use electric postal vehicles until someone found out battery vehicles in freezing climates are not practical. California's ban on diesel vehicles may not come to pass. The semi tractors are about 4,000 to over 8,000 lbs. heavier which would reduce payload by at least 5 -10 percent. Also, all loads from out of state would have to unhitch at the state line and be hooked up to electric motive power. A ridiculous idea to say the least.

California currently generates more solar power than the state can use and pays other states to take it during the day but is short of electricity at night. The current Governor has recently remover 3 or 4 dams which produced electricity; however his excuse was that they did not produce enough electricity. The latest screwball idea is to place floating windmills 900 feet high on platforms of about an acre in size located 30 miles offshore, and anchored to the bottom with chains and weights. in water that is 3,000 -5,000 feet deep then run the wires some 40 -50 miles to a 24 acre battery storage facility which will be built in an area the has tsunami warning signs at that location.

What could possibly go wrong.

This has never been done anywhere in the world in water much deeper that 300 feet. Anything is seawater will be a maintenance nightmare. From my experience as a Naval Officer during a typhoon is that even if you don't believe in God before such an encouter, you will certainly believe in the devil after.

That was a very intelligent post.
I hope you’ll post here more often.
And thank you for your sacrifice & service to our country.

 

[Hay Dude]

Awesome to say the least. I hope you are old enough to remember sitting in a car, maybe at a light, behind that Eldorado idling in front of you. Wasn't the smell of those fumes the best. Roll back those emission rules and cut off those catalytics.

Vehicle emissions have been substantially cleaned up in between the period of your “Eldorado” example, but before the 2008 standards came about.
My non-emissions 90’s and early 2000’s diesel trucks ran very clean and efficient compared to 70’s & 80’s diesels.

Your sarcastic comments are untrue.

 

[Hay Dude]

Sad but true. Unless the US mandated things don't have it. (Not likely). We are too big to ignore, but not so big that mfgs are going to make 2 versions of everything.

As I’ve said before, they may continue to make the diesel trucks with DEF/DPF (and that sucks because it adds ~$10,000 to the cost of the truck), BUT at least the owner can legally electronically deactivate it if he so desires with no penalty, or physically remove the emissions crap altogether.

 

[Hay Dude]

I would bet my paycheck ot won't happen though. We got 3 years under the current administration and there isn't any telling what will happen after that.

What happens if the next administration goes after those pieces of equipment because they determined it was unlawful to lower the emmision standards

You just get a programmer to turn the emissions equipment back on. DPF’s can be replaced with a piece of straight pipe.
I know someone who has a diesel ag tractor that this has had done to it.

 

[bvanek]

(and that sucks because it adds ~$10,000 to the cost of the truck),

it's funny how the cost always gets back page news.....not just directly to the consumer but the environment as well. fossil fuels are currently the bad guy but what about....

Manufacturing solar panels, wind turbines, and electric cars that need large amounts of raw materials/rare earth minerals,.... copper, tin, cobalt lithium, etc. The demand just might exceed supply.....and at some point if we don't apply some common sense it will be an issue of which resource will either ruin the planet or run out first. Mining this stuff is pretty toxic to our planet and the reliance on China supplying life's necessities has been proven to be a bad deal. Remember they are not participating in the so-called Paris Climate accords. They are loving our ignorance as they continue to build more coal fired plants to meet their energy needs...

 

[Jstpssng]

Without me asking or asking for more money, my landscaper has mostly switched over to battery electric lawn care equipment. Our city does not mandate it yet but the writing is on the wall.

At my parents' house where I do the yard work, I use three battery tools (mower, trimmer, blower). One battery gets me through the entrie yard and it's a decent size corner lot of about 9,000sq ft (for around here). I have three batteries and three chargers.

On a personal level my wife and I both drive battery EVs and we also have an old truck that's obviously not an EV.

Driving the truck to the gas station and paying $75 for a tank that gets 220 miles is just a terrible experience overall at this point. 220 miles in either EV costs no more than $9.

One of the EVs has enough range for us to drive from San Diego to Las Vegas on one charge.

Every EV owner I talk to feels the same. It's a vastly superior option if you can charge at home and drive less than 150 miles per day on average.

Overall, I'm on board with switching to battery for MY lifestyle right now. It's been great and I have no regrets other than not doing it sooner.

It's come a long way and with more adoption and infrastructure it will be a smarter and smarter choice for more and more people.

There was a time when the public had to cope with phasing out horses when a better solution came along. I'm sure early engines had many downsides compared to the good old reliable equine.

This isn't to say that policy level decisions are always the way to go. Sometimes they have unintended consequences. But there was no policy or law that mandated I switch to EVs, though there were many state and federal efforts to help advance the adoption as there are with many things. The free market gave me the option and I made the decision that I thought was right for me based on what I would like to think was a sound and sensible process.

Circling back to the beginning of my post, I am going to assume that my landscaper made the decision that was best for him as well. That's the way it should be.

I believe that in time and as battery technology improves, many of us will come to the same conclusion. I very rarely never use my corded drill or circular saw. However, we aren't there yet; nor do we have the infrastructure in place to deliver said power. It's the mandates which I disagree with, as well as funding incentives by taking money out of my pocket (actually, the pockets of your grandchildren.

Also, if I lived in an area with the fire problems you are having I'd keep something on hand with a full tank of gas in case I have to bug out in a hurry.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Also, if I lived in an area with the fire problems you are having I'd keep something on hand with a full tank of gas in case I have to bug out in a hurry.

For some reason that sentence made me wonder why they haven't started pushing, or mandating, electric powered generators yet.

After all, it's a dumb enough idea that some politician should've suggested it.

 

[rontaki]

I believe that in time and as battery technology improves, many of us will come to the same conclusion. I very rarely never use my corded drill or circular saw. However, we aren't there yet; nor do we have the infrastructure in place to deliver said power. It's the mandates which I disagree with, as well as funding incentives by taking money out of my pocket (actually, the pockets of your grandchildren.

Also, if I lived in an area with the fire problems you are having I'd keep something on hand with a full tank of gas in case I have to bug out in a hurry.

I bought an electric SxS, a Polaris Ranger EV and an electric Zero Turn (Ryobi), got that for a good price used. I do not want to deal with petrol engine maintenance, and the characteristics of the electric motor in the Polaris EV suit the farm tasks much better than a gas engine would. Now, if only batteries didn't cost an arm, a leg and one of the family jewels, electric would be the only way to go.
Of course, there are still many cases where only diesel or gasoline power and energy density will do, some of those will be replaced by electricity as energy storage gets better. Some probably never, until forced by resource limitations.
Screw the mandates and the mandators, I went electric in these cases because it made sense to do that.

Imagine a totally electric tractor, with no hydraulics, pumps or oil changes needed. Quiet, no exhaust and related issues, very little maintenance needed. Maybe someday. I know there are a few in development or being sold for special cases, I'm talking about mainstream.
On the other hand, imagine diesel being banned with no decent alternatives. This has been mentioned here before, and in some places being mandated. Also as mentioned, those places are in for a world of hurt when their numbskull idea goes live.
If only there were a way to convince government that to stop interfering with the rest of us, was a form of total control. Then they might be happy and leave us be. About as much chance of that as the pretty women fixing the tractors by the roadside would take us to their home.

 

[ultrarunner]

For some reason that sentence made me wonder why they haven't started pushing, or mandating, electric powered generators yet.

After all, it's a dumb enough idea that some politician should've suggested it.

They are phasing out ice generators…

 

[Eagle1]

I went electric in these cases because it made sense to do that.

Those are the key words. If it makes sense and you have the option you do what works for you.
Where I live I won't rely on just electric heat. Too cold to be out for weeks after a flooding, tornado or snowmaggedon.
I have wood heat and propane along side of electric. Just like I could not rely on just on road car to get anywhere during inclement weather. After some flash flooding you may not get anywhere unless you can take an ATV through the woods and across the creeks.
Electric saws work but will they remove a couple 3' oaks from the road? Some days the 28" bar is not enough with out some tractor help unless I want to pull out the misery whip (manual crosscut saw)
Every tech has there their good and bad points, choice is important and allows us to attempt to live however we prefer.

 

[EscapedSuburbia]

The discussion of subsidies for EV/solar/wind is interesting. It's tough to find unbiased information, but the lowest number I could find for subsidies for the fossil fuel industry in the US is about $20 billion per year. That's no justification but it shows that EV subsidies aren't unique.

 

[ultrarunner]

I was taught not to have all your eggs in one basket and the mandates to all electric everything is concerning.