12 States to ban diesel vehicles

[Dftodd]

All these people talking crap about CA but CA is actually subsidizing poor red and blue states federally. None of these proud states are turning that money down. lol. Keep owning the libs while they pay for your WIC and healthcare.

California is running a huge deficit. So how are they subsidizing poor red states???

 

[EscapedSuburbia]

California is running a huge deficit. So how are they subsidizing poor red states???

States like California and New York send more to the feds in the form of income and business taxes than they receive back. Welfare states like South Dakota, Idaho, and West Virginia are the opposite.

Which states contribute the most and least to federal revenue? | USAFacts

In 2024, Californians paid about $275.6 billion more to the federal government than they received.

usafacts.org

 

[M59]

EscapedSuburbia, You beat me to the response on Net contributors. Here is some more detailed info for what appears to be latest year info is available for which states in 2023 contribute more or less to Fed in income taxes that they get back in "Federal" funding. Lets call it what is really is - Wealth redistribution after the Federal govt takes its cut for handling our money.

Maps show which states give more to federal government than they get back

Four states pay just over a third of the country's federal taxes.

www.newsweek.com

The dark colored states are net receivers and the light colored states are net contributors of $ to the Fed.

CA is net outflow to Fed by $77 billion

TX is net outflow to Fed by $67 billion
In general, many of the states are net contributors to other states.

Now specifically regarding CA. Its annual deficits are FAR greater, by several multiples but not order of magnitude, than its net outflow to the Fed, so even if CA got back every dollar it sent to Fed, CA would still be annually spending SUBSTANTIALLY
( hundreds of billions ) more than it takes in from taxes on it citizens.

The reason I left CT was it was running annual deficits that far exceeded its revenues to the point they were paying a bond in Hartford CT on a bridge that was torn down in 1950 ( 70 years ago!! ) and no one is interested in buying CT state bonds so the state ended up encumbering the states lottery to get bonds underwritten.

 

[Hay Dude]

That was, likely, a Federal effort, or with Federal Blessing, at at time when the land was far less populated, and virtually ZERo paved roads, or cars/trucks to use them.

Are you frickin kidding me?!?!
Ummm, do you think tools were a bit less capable then?

Like railroads in 1867 were built by men with picks & shovels. Today’s earthmoving equipment, trucks, excavators, etc. is 100 times faster!

California is quite densely populated with a network of existing buildings, roads and people to be dealt with. Despite that, some track has been built despite the anti-rail propaganda.

Is is a "Boondoggle"? Could it have been better managed? How would I, or anyone not involved, ever know for sure?

Come on! LOL That was the biggest boondoggle in California’s history!

 

[EscapedSuburbia]

Another example of state deficits not being related to being a net leech to the feds is Indiana. Their state constitution requires a balance budget yet they get more from the feds than they contribute.

 

[Elviscaretaker]

EscapedSuburbia, You beat me to the response on Net contributors. Here is some more detailed info for what appears to be latest year info is available for which states in 2023 contribute more or less to Fed in income taxes that they get back in "Federal" funding. Lets call it what is really is - Wealth redistribution after the Federal govt takes its cut for handling our money.

Maps show which states give more to federal government than they get back

Four states pay just over a third of the country's federal taxes.

www.newsweek.com

The dark colored states are net receivers and the light colored states are net contributors of $ to the Fed.

View attachment 3843689CA is net outflow to Fed by $77 billion
View attachment 3843691 TX is net outflow to Fed by $67 billion
In general, many of the states are net contributors to other states.

Now specifically regarding CA. Its annual deficits are FAR greater, by several multiples but not order of magnitude, than its net outflow to the Fed.

The reason I left CT was it was running annual deficits that far exceeded its revenues to the point they were paying a bond in Hartford CT on a bridge that was torn down in 1950 ( 70 years ago!! ) and no one is interested in buying CT state bonds so the state ended up encumbering the states lottery to get bonds underwritten.

It's all really in how it's calculated. But, federal spending per capita according to this article is a bit higher in those sates say vs the welfare state of Idaho that is mostly owned by the federal government. But, I would like to see the State here take no federal money, the federal gov give up the land they don't use for government functions etc. See, if the feds didn't take it to just skim off the top and give it back, just maybe they wouldn't interfere in state policies. Just maybe people would have more $$ in their pockets. Coming from that hell hole of a state WA, like CA, they are having major budget issues due to the total incompetence of their leaders.

 

[Merck]

I saw a news article of the push to ban all diesel vehicles, mainly by 2035. Currently, there are 12 states marching down this path. It's the usual states, that are also pushing for 100% electric, by tying their laws to align with laws/rules that are passed in California.

One of the things that really surprises me, is states that tie their rules and mandates that come from California. Without getting political, I'd be more than a little miffed as a voter in say Massachusetts, who's legislature chooses to abandon their own sovereignty and instead abide by the rules passed by voters in another state.

I haven't dug through all the details, but I can't help but wonder what this would do to costs for shipping and transport. Surely, you'd think they'd carve out an exception for heavy transport and trucking. What about off-road equipment for construction and agriculture?

They can pass all they want to. When they aren't getting anything on the grocery shelfs because the trucks can't go over 75-100 miles without recharging they will change, or starve.

 

[bvanek]

Oregon regulations has squeezed supply issues designed to force people into higher % bio- diesel..Right now most pumps are B20 and the B5 mix has almost disappeared ...the subsidies for the ethanol fuel mix has been tripled by the last admin.(the so-called infrastructure bill) Basically political collaboration to keep the green hoax afloat.

These latest, extremely expensive taxpayer subsidies, had more than a single purpose, but at the pump, it brought the bio diesel price down .....then in turn, Oregon's supply manipulation and more importantly the regulatory hold (essentially a hidden carbon tax) on B5 fuel coming into the state, has caused the B5 diesel to go up (or at least not go down like in many areas) The Left coast is still having it's war on fossil fuels and we pay an average of 1.25 more per gallon...I live in Oregon on the Wash-OR border... B5 diesel in Washington is $5.19 a gallon. In Oregon B20 is $4.35 <----problems with this blend = more fuel consumption, fuel filter getting mold, gelling more and fuel flow through injectors.

There is one place near me where I can get B5 Diesel ....Pacific Pride card lock (also where I can get off road for tractor) But Lately I have noticed the bluish-green sheen is no longer visible so I'm guessing they are using B5 "ultra" where hydrogen is used in processing to reduce sulfur content. So sulfur is a very good lubrication?......... and the story keeps evolving....They just keep on keeping on.

the short version; Oregon politics compromises the rural folk....and not just a little.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

I largely agree, except that the sulfur itself doesn't do anything for lubricity. There's more to it.

 

[Jstpssng]

Probably missed it in this thread. Where is the infrastructure for all this electric? How is that electricity being generated? Like gas stations, they have to be everywhere. Then the morons that smoke themselves stealing electricity will create a ban on electricity.

Magic, of course.

 

[ultrarunner]

Did a quick search and it seems this is a push to ban SALES of NEW vehicles, both Diesel AND Gasoline powered.

Did not see anything about a ban on USE of existing vehicles of that type.

As single minded as Legislatures can be, I do not think any of them, in their membership Majority at least, are completely out of touch with reality.

Logger friend found a low mileage diesel f450 configured just how he wanted in TX and bought it…

CA would not let him register it in California.

A lot of construction equipment and generators and chippers are banned…

Another friend had a crane company and given the cost of some of his large cranes he was forced to repower…

Farm tags give some limited relief but construction has no such breaks…

 

[Dftodd]

Oregon regulations has squeezed supply issues designed to force people into higher % bio- diesel..Right now most pumps are B20 and the B5 mix has almost disappeared ...the subsidies for the ethanol fuel mix has been tripled by the last admin.(the so-called infrastructure bill) Basically political collaboration to keep the green hoax afloat.

These latest, extremely expensive taxpayer subsidies, had more than a single purpose, but at the pump, it brought the bio diesel price down .....then in turn, Oregon's supply manipulation and more importantly the regulatory hold (essentially a hidden carbon tax) on B5 fuel coming into the state, has caused the B5 diesel to go up (or at least not go down like in many areas) The Left coast is still having it's war on fossil fuels and we pay an average of 1.25 more per gallon...I live in Oregon on the Wash-OR border... B5 diesel in Washington is $5.19 a gallon. In Oregon B20 is $4.35
There is one place near me where I can get B5 Diesel ....Pacific Pride card lock (also where I can get off road for tractor) But Lately I have noticed the bluish-green sheen is no longer visible so I'm guessing they are using B5 "ultra" where hydrogen is used in processing to reduce sulfur content. So sulfur is a very good lubrication?......... and the story keeps evolving....They just keep on keeping on.

the short version; Oregon politics compromises the rural folk....and not just a little.

I bet the diesel mechanics are loving the b20 blend.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

When I had a '80 Peterbilt, insured as an RV and used as one but couldn't get it registered as such in CA, they wanted me to spend $20K on an exhaust system for it.

That would've bought me four years of compliance, for about the same as I had paid for it few years earlier. Ended up registering it as a historical vehicle.

Of course, not much later I fled that mess and got it registered as an RV in NM without any problems.

 

[ultrarunner]

It’s a real issue and the stop gaps are often costly and provide only a little relief as in a few years extension…

Places I see loggers go just don’t seem suitable for anything but diesel power.

The end game is reducing ICE engines using petroleum across the board.

 

[Hoho223]

Thats old news...

Emissions are being rolled back as we speak.

Awesome to say the least. I hope you are old enough to remember sitting in a car, maybe at a light, behind that Eldorado idling in front of you. Wasn't the smell of those fumes the best. Roll back those emission rules and cut off those catalytics.

 

[ultrarunner]

Smoking, Belching tailpipes have always been a violation…

A real problem I have in California where 50 year old cars are treadmill smogged is almost no stations left to perform the required smog check and even fewer allowed to adjust carburetors and even fewer smog techs.

For decades the standard was 25 year rolling exemption which was briefly changed to 30 year rolling and then frozen at model year 1976.

I have seen cars pass the tailpipe emission test but fail the visual because of a aftermarket catalytic converter or exhaust manifold because no OEM remain to be purchased.

Think about it… how many 1976 Porsches are daily drivers?

 

[Torvy]

Isn't the problem all of the libs in the cities are the majority of the population? The farmers and people in the rural areas do not have voting power.

Supreme Court ruling (Sims) took away the checks that kept cities from dominating states. Next to impossible to put that genie back. They would have to enforce a return and reset most state governments.

Our system was built to balance city and rural power. The Court broke it for the states.

 

[arto98607]

Smoking, Belching tailpipes have always been a violation…

A real problem I have in California where 50 year old cars are treadmill smogged is almost no stations left to perform the required smog check and even fewer allowed to adjust carburetors and even fewer smog techs.

For decades the standard was 25 year rolling exemption which was briefly changed to 30 year rolling and then frozen at model year 1976.

I have seen cars pass the tailpipe emission test but fail the visual because of a aftermarket catalytic converter or exhaust manifold because no OEM remain to be purchased.

Think about it… how many 1976 Porsches are daily drivers?

WA State discontinued emission resting several years ago - it's no longer justified!

 

[Paystar]

I don't have an issue with electric cars. I just don't like it being mandated. An electric car might be a perfect fit for my wife's driving. But it won't work for me, pulling trailers, off road driving, hauling loads etc.

Not only that, but the US is in a race with the rest of the world to harness AI. Similar to the Manhattan Project in its significance, with the winner having significant strategic and trade advantages that will reverberate for decades. The additional electrical requirements for AI and data centers are staggering. The last thing we need is to have a competing draw on our electric needs for the next few years.

Know what's even scarier? What they are saying about Elon Musk owning every electric utility and being worth 20 trillion dollars in the next couple years.
Just what the world needs....one man with that much power to completely cripple us all. I don't trust that guy as far as I can throw him.

 

[Torvy]

The manufacturers are global entities. Before final tier 4 came out, the manufacturers got wind that Europe was going to tier 5 emmision standards.

Rather then reinvent the wheel. Manufacturers made sure the Final tier 4 here in the US would meet Europe's tier 5 requirements.

So even if we followed Europe's lead with tier 5, all the equipment manufacturers would need to do is change the badging to tier 5

Even if the US lowers restrictions, the equipment manufacturers will leave the equipment as is.

Sad but true. Unless the US mandated things don't have it. (Not likely). We are too big to ignore, but not so big that mfgs are going to make 2 versions of everything.